Challenge 2K9/Pre Chat

Hi, I'm going to begin this challenge. Do anyone deny?

I'll have 4 sub-classes for this challenge:

• /SmallBot Movement Challenge Y2K9: Test your nanobot or microbot movement against good micro/nanobot gun!
  • Reference bots:
    • Pattern Matching: WeeklongObsession, FunkyChicken, Waylander
    • GF: HedgehogGF, RaikoMicro
    • Linear: Splinter, PRAL and SRAL
    • Other: Infinity and NanoDeath

• /WaveSurfing Challenge Y2K9: test your bot against simple targeting.
  • By having three old bots, WSCBotA, WSCBotB and WSCBotC still act like it was in WSMCY2K6. Now, I'll add Mean Targeting to it! (By my test in BlackHole, most wavesurfer show its weakness with Mean Circular Gun.)
    • WSCBotD fire Mean Linear gun averaged on velocity at history depth of 10.
    • WSCBotE fire Mean Linear gun averaged on both velocity and heading at history depth of 10.
    • WSCBotF fire Mean Circular gun averaged on velocity at history depth of 10.
    • WSCBotG fire Mean Circular gun averaged on both velocity and heading change at history depth of 10.
    • WSCBotPM: (comment please) How about NanoLauLectik gun?

• /Curve Flattening Challenge Y2K9: how much can you flat the movement curve?
  • I'm thinking of Kawagi's entropy should use to rate each robot here. - not be used for comment below.
  • Reference bot: CassiusClay 2rho.01b, Hydra 0.21 and Dookious 1.59 with AS gun off.
    • Note: Dookious 1.59 not 1.573c

• /AntiPatternMatcherChallenge Y2K9: how much can you random?
  • Old, simple pattern matcher aren't interesting enough. How about Statistical Pattern Matcher?
  • Reference bot: modified version of Toorklid.

Main challenge

Like MCY2K7, let's vote for reference bot! Currently candidate are:

• GrubbmGrb 1.2.4 - the old version from MCY2K07 can be used here, I've no more ideas.
• Shadow 3.83MC - the reference mode of Shadow
• WeeksOnEnd 1.10.04MC - modified to fire only 3 bullets.
• Phoenix1.02 - Use as-is
• DrussGT 1.3.0 - Disabled the GT surfing.
• MaxRisk - very old but best, modified to always fire 3 bullets.
• some NN gun on wave wave surfing. UPDATE: How about Engineer?
• Some Angular Targeting bot should be best. Maybe very old Gouldingi with ABO gun off.

/Vote For Reference Bot

The reference bot for main challenge is separate over difference kind of targeting. I think it is good enough. If any one have more ideas, let me know.

The 'default' gun shall be voted, too, but later :)

• old RaikoGun - Pretty Well
• DookiLighting with AS gun off - interesting
• DrussGunDC - should work too good - will not be use if DrussGT is reference bot
• Bee - too good, too.
• Horizon DC Gun - ???

/Reference Gun Voting

A QUESTION: DO ANYONE WANT DYNAMIC CLUSTERING CHALLENGE THAT EVERY CHALLENGERS MUST USE DYNAMIC CLUSTERING MAINLY IN THEIR MOVEMENT?

» Nat | Talk » 15:19, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

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Comments

I have a few comments:

• Yes, NanoBot is good! I was just thinking we need this the other day.
• WaveSurfing is not about dodging GF and AntiSurfer much. The biggest point of wavesurfing is being able to adaptively dodge ALL kinds of guns. Including head-on, linear, circular, pattern matchers, are also all very important in REALLY gauging how well a wavesurfer performs. In fact, in some ways with wavesurfing the following is a very good rule: Unless you can get 98%+ against head-on targeting WITHOUT firing, then you have some significant bugs/flaws that you could put all focus into fixing. Similarly, simple targeting is also very important to gauge. Only after you've perfected against the simple targeting, should you try to improve it against the fancier things.
• You seem to indicate a small number of bots with how you say "best pair of" and such. Really, it's not a fair test unless you have far more challenge bots than that.
• The main challenge could maybe with some additions/removals/updates probably as well
• Actually, instead of "WaveSurfing Challange" I'd suggest a "Avoid the Simple Targeting" challenge, and a seperate "Avoid the Adaptive Guns" challenge. In fact, this could absorb the "main" one as well maybe. Just have one with everything from head-on to nano pattern matchers, and one with everything like high-end pattern matchers up to strong GF guns and AntiSurfer guns.

Other than that, cheers! --Rednaxela 19:45, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

I've change the class above, do you have any more comment on that, Rednaxela?

Also other robocoder (look for Skilgannon and Voidious), refused? If not the rules will going on within a week I promise. » Nat | Talk » 14:21, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Not bad overall. With the curve flattening however, I think that using Kawagi's 'entropy' to measure is a bit sketchy. I'm simply not convinced entropy does actually measure vulnrability to GF targeting well. For one thing, any any movements that react to getting hit would not really give the same entropy information in different situations. I'd say that for 'curve flattening' it would make more sense to have it as a challenge with fired at by other bots just like the rest, in particular, but a widely varied set of GF guns, from simple unsegmented, up to very strong guns like you mention in the 'main' challenge. Also after that I'd say that really "Main" and "Curve Flattening Challenge" could be merged to make "AntiGFTargeting Challenge", and that "Movement Adaption Challenge" is unnecessary because the anti-GF and anti-PM categories would have already covered that. --Rednaxela 14:51, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't think that Curve Flattening challenge and AntiGF is not the same! I sometime saw that Phoenix doesn't 'surf' the wave to lowest position, instead it almost keep itself at edge of the peek :) But I've merge Movement Adaption challenge into main challenge now. » Nat | Talk » 15:19, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

A few suggestions:

1. Don't make all opponents fire 3 power bullets. It would be more realistic if we face these bots as they actually are.
2. If you want to use DrussGT as a reference bot, rather use 1.3.0 as it was significantly stronger in the PL than 1.3.1. However, we already have Shadow as a WS+DC bot. The movement being GT doesn't really matter, because we are all using a standard gun. DrussGT is also fairly slow these days, and running many many seasons could be quite tedious.
3. I suggest for the micro, that they fight the micro+nano bots, because they actually face both in the micro rumble. Similarly, the mega bots should face everybody, not just top bots.
4. I'd suggest NanoDeath as the Rambot, because then we can include it in the nano section, and everybody can face it.
5. We don't need to test nanos against GF, there is only 1 GF nano in the whole nanorumble so it has very little effect. It is also VERY slow, and will make the competition take much longer to run.
6. I'd be willing to whip up a simplified, speeded up version of DrussGunDC that we could use as a reference gun. However, it will probably still run slower than Raiko's gun, which worked very well last time. But cutting down DrussGunDC will take very little time, and it will run much faster if I pull a smaller cluster and use only 6 or 7 dimensions.

--Skilgannon 18:41, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

1. Actually, almost bot fire 3 bullets in its reference mode. But I think that for TC, right? So, the middle way. Some will fire 3 power bullet and some will not, OK?
2. I'm thinking that between you and Horizon, who has stronger gun? The stronger shall be reference bot and the weaker shall be reference gun :)
3. OK, merging micro and nano. I can merging it without thinking because I have to do a less work.
4. NanoDeath is fine, but I like MaxRisk more. May add it to nano challenge.
5. When merged, the more 'micro' GF will do that :)
6. OK, I have look the difference from MC and MCY2K6 that almost everything is difference! I don't want the same thing and I want DC gun, so... I now know 4 GF-DC bots, LukiSaber, FireBirdGun, DrussGunDC and HorizonGun. FireBird is close source so no. LukiSaber is from Dookious so I'd prefer the DokiLighting more. Most DrussGT score is from movement so DrussGun may not as strong as those gun. The old Bee gun is very strong, the old MC score show that. I've run any battle with Horizon yet but I read his code :)

Note for you, Skilgannon, Can you improve the Toorklid for the APM challenge?

Does Voidious around here? I'd like to hear from him. » Nat | Talk » 19:19, 24 February 2009 (UTC)