User talk:Nat

Archived Talk:

2009/04/06 - 2009/06/20

Let see if I get confirmation email. » Nat | Talk » 14:34, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

I think it ignores your own edits. So here you go. =) --Voidious 14:37, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Thank you, it does ignore owner edits. » Nat | Talk » 14:40, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Birthday 2009

Attention guys, today is a very special day! At least to me, because today (July 3) is my birthday! Mind giving me a little "Happy Birthday"? LOL » Nat | Talk » 11:15, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Happy Birthday!--CrazyBassoonist 12:44, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Lol, happy birthday man! Hope it's a good one ;) --Spinnercat 15:28, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Happy birthday =) --Skilgannon 15:40, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Happy Birthday, Nat. Don't party too hard. =) --Voidious 17:26, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Happy Birthday Nat, hope you have fun ;-) --zyx 18:25, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

                     {}
                     ||
                 ____||_____
            {}  {~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~}  {}
            ||  { ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ }  ||
          __||__{___________}__||__
         {\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\}
      {} {        H a p p y       \} {}
      || {\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\} ||
    __||_{_________________________}_||__
   {\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\}
   {                                     }
   {         B i r t h d a y ! ! !       }
   {                                     }
   {/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/}
   {_____________________________________}

-- Synapse 21:17, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Haha, happy birthday Nat. Hope it's a good one! --Rednaxela 23:50, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Thanks guy. Actually I don't have a party, nor cake (except the one above), nor presents =) I've got my present 3 months ago (new notebook that I'm currently sitting in front of) and I hate party! It take the time that I usually sit in front of my computer away. However, this isn't a good one. I've got a cold! Or at least I hope it only cold, not swine flu ;-) » Nat | Talk » 01:38, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

MicroBot Wave Surfing

Anyone have 10TB of memory and hard disk to spare? I need that to perform my own microbot wave surfing. The large part of Wave Surfing is precise prediction, which nonetheless can't fit in micro. I wonder if I cached all the prediction and just access it at runtime. Now I roughly calculated. Let see, I restricted the location, absBearing, velocity and distance to all integer. Total possible location on the map is 764*564 = 430896 locations, multiply by 360 absBearing, ~950 distance, 17 velocity. Saves in short (2 bytes), contain x and y will result in around 764*564*360*950*17*2*2 = 10020917376000 B = 9786052125 KiB = ~9,556,692 MiB = ~9,333 GiB = ~9.114 TiB.

Anyone have ideas how can I reduced those number? If I use 80*60 possible locations, 36 possible absBearing, 17 velocity and 19 possible distance, it still cost 43MB Note that this need to be preloaded into the robot, not calculating on-the-fly. Nat | Talk » 05:17, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

I've done a fair amount of work with precalculated movement table things. I once got a precalculated movement table down to about 2MB, but that's still too big for ethical pre-loading, AND the optimizations it used took rather large codesize to turn into something usable in battle. I don't think you're going to be able make this realistically work Nat honestly. --Rednaxela 05:27, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

=( Well, thanks for the info. » Nat | Talk » 05:50, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

I'll let you borrow my tables when I get around to adding micros to my list ;) --Miked0801 09:02, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm not talking about the VCS table, I'm talking about movement table i.e. the table that allow you to know what is your position next tick if you are at (x,y) with a velocity of v and the enemy is at θ with a distance of d or something. It is the replacement of Precise Prediction used in minibot and megabot. » Nat | Talk » 09:25, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

I haven't dealed with wavesurfing yet, but do you need precise prediction? Is there anything less complex that could replace it? Anyway, take a look at kb.WaveShark, it's supposed to be a wavesurfer. --HUNRobar 14:38, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

LOL, it is kc.WaveShark. Actually it is that robot which inspire me about this. » Nat | Talk » 14:40, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Pugilist is an example of a wave surfing without precise prediction I think, that might be able to give some inspiration --Rednaxela 15:53, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. I have looked at it now, the prediction thing is still too large I think. But I'll give it a try... » Nat | Talk » 16:09, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Bi-hourly release

Wonder is this is right thing to do or not. Because the number of clients running among this day, I can release my robot bi-hourly. But since I'm not running those clients, I not sure if this is right thing to do or not. » Nat | Talk » 11:42, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

if there are no other bots waiting, not a problem. But, my bot has been waiting for a bit to get to 2k battles in nanos. If you need this much info and are feeling guilty, use roboresearch for your tests. You'll get your answers just as quick without the guilt. --Miked0801 15:26, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Sorry. When I checked and see the "PAIRINGS COMPLETE" text, I decided that the ranking is completed. Actually I'm not needing it fast, just roughly seen where it place is enough for me to decided what to do with next version, and I usually take only 10 minutes to do it. I'll try to run it on RoboResarch next time. Thanks. » Nat | Talk » 15:39, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

I think the rule of thumb used to be maximum one release per day? There are quite a few bots in the nano & micro categories still below 2000 battles. If you're feeling guilty, run a client and help out... --Darkcanuck 17:28, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Number of Edits

Hmm... I wonder if the number of edits at Special:Preferences correct? Mine is currently 1,653 (at the time of writing, so perhaps this shall count as another one), but the Special:Statistics said that total edits is currently 9,954. I don't think I make an edit that much. » Nat | Talk » 13:36, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

{{Wikipedia}} template use

Hey Nat, I really recommend you don't use the {{Wikipedia}} template on the Twin Duel and RoboRumble pages like that. The reason being, the text "Wikipedia has an article about: Twin Duel" is very much NOT true, as it's only a minor section. I don't think it's sensible to use this template for one-section-only links. See Talk:Anti-Gravity_Movement#Wikipedia_link --Rednaxela 15:24, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

I see. Thanks, perhaps new template with "Wikipedia has a section about: Twin Duel ... in page Robocode" is better =) I'll remove them. Thanks again. » Nat | Talk » 15:31, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

SDS + Zoom = ?

For any who doesn't know what is SDS and Zoom Targeting, I'll explain briefly. SDS (Symbolic Dynamic Segmentation) is a data management system that you will map the data to a string that represent a state of the data. When you need data, just match the current state with the state of each data. If they are no match or too few matches, just strip last character out and do the match again. Do this until you have enough matches you want.

Zoom Targeting looks similar but indeed it isn't. It have fixed number of 'zoom' level, each level with different preciseness of the states. The deeper the zoom level, the more precise the state is. When you zoom in, it will act more like wave-based pattern matching. When you zoom out it will act more like statistical gun.

Now I'm thinking of combine them together. Like SDS-based data storing and using Zoom Targeting algorithm to choose number of segmentation to use? Any ideas?

Also, please help me think of a name. I'm considering of 'Statistical Zoom Data Management Algorithm' but it won't fit at all. » Nat | Talk » 07:32, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

OOP vs. Pluggable?

Hmm... I want to know, do you guys prefer more OOP or more Pluggable? I mean, I'm development a very pluggable robot (I mean, they have very little shared class) and still OOP-ed (mean that it have clean structure). (While I must accept that current top robot, DrussGT is the most pluggable =)) I realised that my repeat my code a lot. Currently the core of my GF gun contains 6 files: EnemyMovementProfile (interface), GuessFactorGun, GunScanLog, GunScan, GunWave and GunStats (interface). My movement engine has almost exact file with almost exactly the same content (EnemyMovementProfile vs SelfMovementProfile; GuessFactorGun vs WaveSurfingmovement; Gun... vs Movement...). And I can merge a lot of it into single file (or using abstract class) easily. In this case, do you guys choose to use the very pluggable structure with less OOP or more OOP with less pluggability? » Nat | Talk » 10:54, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

I think mixing movement and targeting classes is providing an opportunity for bugs to creep in, because there are many small differences. So for good programming practices try to keep them separate, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't have many small subclasses. And DrussGT isn't that pluggable, for an example of pluggable look at Dookious or CassiusClay, my next release will be working on that though =) --Skilgannon 11:28, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

One thing I hate about Dookious is loads of utility class in the *.util package. With DrussGT, movement need DrussGT and BufferManager, while gun need DrussGunDC, PreciseUtil and PreciseWave. Dookious, err, have too many files too lazy to copy over =) » Nat | Talk » 11:34, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't really understand - why do you think OOP and pluggable are opposites? A good OOP design will also be pluggable. Dookious certainly tries to be both (and succeeds, I think). Coding style is a personal preference, but since you're asking =) ... My advice would be to use OOP design principles as best you can. OOP is an important thing for any aspiring programmer to understand, and Robocode is a great place to practice those concepts. Also, having code copied in multiple places is a Very Bad Thing, if you ask me (or just about any programmer)! And why not have movement and targeting share code when it makes sense? Of course, pay attention to subtle differences in targeting/movement, but a lot of stuff can be safely shared. --Voidious 16:25, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

I think I have difference definition of Pluggable =) Basically, I mean that Dookious isn't pluggable because I need to copy a whole util package too, which contains a lot of unnecessary classes. DrussGT is pluggable in my mind because I can copy it over without any unnecessary classes. OK, pluggable redefined... Thanks for your opinion. » Nat | Talk » 02:26, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

What I believe you mean, is the scale from Monolithic, to Monolithic Modules, to Granular Modules, to Very Granular Modules. DrussGT would be in the general region of "Monolithic Modules", whereas Dookious would be closer to "Granular Modules", some others like most of my large ones might go into "Very Granular Modules", and things like nanobots are almost always in "Monolithic" of course. Anyway, I believe which is best depends on the complexity of the bot (no point in very granular modules when things are simple enough anyway), and personal preferences. It's quite easy for either too monolithic or too granular to make code hard to maintain/read, but ultimately what's right depends on the bot and the authod in question. --Rednaxela 04:33, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, thanks. It took me long enough to look into a dictionary (I have been googling for those terms for quite a time and found nothing) =) » Nat | Talk » 07:31, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Trig Help!

Anyone please help me with this: given the angle a1 and a2 and the distance d, how can I calculate the distance r if the shape is a segment of a circle?

http://nat.robothai.net/robocode/trig-help.png

» Nat | Talk » 06:11, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Is this the only info you have nat, or do you also know exactly where the origins of a1 and a2 lie on the circle? --Positive 09:23, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, this is all information I have. I'm not sure it can be calculated. In my melee gun development, I use very rough (but better than linear) approx. for interpolation, but if I can calculate this, it will be much more accurate. » Nat Pavasant » 09:34, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

I think the answer is that the length, r, is Math.asin((d/a)/2)*2. Where d is the mentioned distance and a is the radius of the circle. You use the Math.asin function the calculate the angle z in radians. Multiplying the angle z by two gives the total length of r. Correct me if I'm wrong. :)

Hmm... I think you are correct, only that I don't know the radius of the circle... Note that a1 and a2 is the angle from line d to the dotted line, not r, so... I'm not sure, but I think a1 is equal to a2? But it still doesn't help. » Nat Pavasant » 10:22, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

It might just be my internet connection, but I can't get your image to load. If you upload it to the wiki I might be able to help. --Skilgannon 20:44, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

South Africa? I know some countries can't access this host (Netherlands, for one). Basically, the green lines/text, gray dotted line, and the curve r from Red's pic are mine. » Nat Pavasant » 11:22, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

I belive I've solved it Nat. Here's a picture with the solution, and some rough work overlayed on the original image :)

--Rednaxela 22:17, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Thank you very much! But can you explain what is c please? I don't understand it. Thank you again. » Nat Pavasant » 11:22, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

c is circumference. He was just deriving the formula for arclength, which is radius*theta where theta is in radians. Also, b1 and b2 form an isosceles triangle with the radius, so b1 = b2 thus a1 = a2, so the formula can be simplified a bit =) --Skilgannon 11:31, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Oh, thank you. *slap myself hard* How could I forget the formula for circumference? Hmm... I think I said somewhere about that a1 == a2 so the final answer will be <math>r = {{2a \times d}\over{\sqrt{2 - 2 \times cos(2a)}}}</math> where <math>a</math> is the angle. Will try this with the movement interpolater tonight =) » Nat Pavasant » 11:43, 21 September 2009 (UTC)