Talk:PencilRain

Halle-friggin'-luja, I finally got the circles! I've finally collected enough information, and got me events sorted out enough, and I can draw the circles when the enemy fires! I've been waiting a year for this, and I worked on it for... way too much time this weekend. I'm actually currently drawing them any time a bot loses energy (enemy or me), it's a real mess when Crazy is pinned between me and the wall ramming back and forth and shooting me. I guess the next step will be filtering out the non-bullets based on bot location (for running into walls, or me), and eventually for melee I would need to consider bots getting hit by bullets that are not my own.

Holy crap, I've been running it and watching the circles while I've been typing, I think it just hit a time limit where bots just start losing energy until they die, my screen went crazy with circles from both robots, that was awesome. --BenHorner 03:40, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

To filter out the other energy losses remember you know if he crashed with you with the onHitRobot and for wall hits extends AdvancedRobot bots take damage only if their speed at collision was higher that 2, extends Robot bots don't take wall damage. And yes, there is an inactivity timer that makes both bots loose energy if there hasn't been damage in a while, rarely happens on a real battle unless both bots a low on energy and saving it without firing. --zyx 06:06, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

I didn't even consider that non-AdvancedRobots wouldn't take wall damage, though I don't think that will mess me up. Thanks for the reminder on the speed 2 thing, I will have to look up that formula, and the one for bots hitting each other too, to make sure that the energy drops are exactly accounted for. I was thinking that I might be able to incorporate enemy gun heat into it too, if it's impossible that they fired... then they probably didn't fire. :) --BenHorner 22:57, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

If you are try to create Wave Surfer, you probably doesn't need to consider wall hit or inactive timers. About melee detecting, that's the reason why there is no wave surfing melee bots around here today. I've been recently working on my own BattlePredictor library (not finished yet) which will simulate normal melee robots behavior base on scan, which include guessed target (which other robot might aimed to), guessed firing angle (base on some past bullet hit info) and so on. But trust me, this is really complicate and might eat all your turns. OK, back to inactive timer and wall hit. If you are creating wave surfing (which I think you are since you are drawing an enemy wave), the wall hit thing is not need to be considered since top robots don't hit wall (99.999% of the time) and the mid robot that sometimes hit wall will not affect your surfing (much, but it usually has no effect) and with low nanobot that hit wall often, your movement will be good enough to get rid of them. And inactive timer, since, as zyx mentioned, this will happen only if two robots cease fire for save their energy, but both of them will have energy less than 5 (usually between 0.0 and 1.5) and will die both before any bullets will reach each other. This is proved by DrussGT, which doesn't have any detection for wall and inactive timer. » Nat | Talk » 12:32, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

I'm not really sure what wave surfing is... it sounds like you would be running away from the bullets, like riding a wave, but you can't go fast enough to do that, even for the slowest bullets, so I've never been sure what it was. For both my gun, and to keep track of what the enemy gun is doing, I've planned on keeping track of bearings. If you draw a line between the two bots, I would use the bearing off of that line, and keep track of how often I hit the enemy at a certain bearing, and how often I get hit at a certain bearing, throw in some kind of smoothing function to make it look like a probability distribution, and use that data accordingly. Is that what wave surfing is about? --BenHorner 22:57, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Yep, you're on the right track. When you are keeping track of these bearing offsets, you can imagine a wave ("ripple" might evoke a more accurate image) with the center being where the bot shot the bullet, and the radius being the distance the bullet has traveled. The circle represents all places that bullet could possibly be. When this ripple crosses over the enemy, you can use that spot to calculate the bearing offset (assuming you remember where he was when the wave was created). If you turn on the debugging graphics in Phoenix or Diamond in 1v1, it shows the enemy waves and the dangers it projects along that wave. --Voidious 23:23, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I've seen the circles either in documentation, or in robot debug graphics. I've thought of them as the set of possible locations of a bullet, like electrons in an electron shell, they only exist probabilistically (until you get shot of course). So is a bot called a wave surfer if it takes this kind of information into account, or is it something more specific than that? I also always wondered if it was offensive or defensive, I intend to use the information both ways, is that typical of wave surfers as well? --BenHorner 01:54, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, pretty much a "wave surfer" is any bot that uses waves (based on enemy shots) in its movement. To really leverage the power of wave surfing, though, you need to use precise prediction, get many little details right, collect data when you get hit, and project danger along waves to go to the safest spots. So "wave surfing" is generally interpreted as including all of those things, too, even though it doesn't have to. Wave Surfing is just movement, so it's defensive, but yeah, lots of advanced targeting strategies use waves, too. If you're interested, there's a Wave Surfing Tutorial that attempts to teach you most of these little details and get started doing surfing. But it sounds like you're well on the way already. --Voidious 02:17, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Whoah, I just looked at the debug graphics on Phoenix... that is insane. Diamond's look crazy too from the wiki page, but I couldn't find it for download here: http://darkcanuck.net/rumble/robots/, where can it be got? How long has it been since someone came up with a new idea in Robocode? :) --BenHorner 02:50, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

There's a download link in the infobox on the right of the Diamond page, latest version is here. They're a lot like Phoenix in 1v1, though, that's where I got the idea. And, well, with eight years of smart people slaving away at robots and building on what's come before, it shouldn't be too surprising that a lot of great ideas have already been done. But there's definitely still a lot of room for new ideas and new takes on old ideas. --Voidious 03:06, 27 May 2009 (UTC)