Archived talk:Cyanide 20090528

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Cyanide - Version History - Archived Talk 20090528

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I'm going to try redoing the segmentation in the next version. What are you guys currently using as segments in your movement now? I have my lat velocity, distance, acceleration, and enemy bullet power. -- Alcatraz

Ascendant uses only its velocity for segmentation. In addition to that it has an unsegmented gf-array for fast learning purposes. Including other segmentation dimensions is still on my totry-list though. --Mue

SS have 1 unsegmented fast learning, 1 unsegmented slow learning, 1 flattener & 1 segmented gf-array (3 distances, 5 velocities & 3 acceleration) -- Axe

Now the top 3 American bots are all lined up, and within three points of each other. --Alcatraz

And with 3 Swedish bots ahead of them. =) -- PEZ

And another 7 countries, too... --Alcatraz

But DarkHallow's mark is 2025 something. Congrats to bringing your bot up to 1975 btw. -- PEZ

Not any more. :-) I'm still nowhere near DH's record though. --David Alves

You might end up in the group of three or near DH's high. Too early to tell at 270 battles. -- PEZ

Hmm. I'm starting to feel left behind again. -- Alcatraz

• Sorry. -- jim

Question: What is the proper way of determining where and at what angle the enemy fired at? Where does the bullet originate? -- Alcatraz

What angle it fired at you can't know unless you get hit by the bullet or a bullet of yours hits it. The bullet origin is the position of the enemy the tick before you saw it's energy drop. At least that's what my debugging tells me. (RobocodeGL seems to think the bullet's origin is bulletVelocity units advanced from the enemy position at T-1.)

But you already knew this, didn't ya? I'm curious why you ask.

-- PEZ

I should've specified, what is the angle of guess factor 0? Is it from the enemy's position to mine 2 ticks ago, 1 tick ago, or at the current time? I ask because while the bullet is always on the right wave, the HOTs do not always fire at what I think GF0 ought to be. -- Alcatraz

It's the absolute bearing from enemy to you at T - 1. -- PEZ

Use WaveSurfingChallengeBotA to test... some bots, like Barracuda, don't always fire exactly head-on, so they can fool you. --David Alves

PERFECTION!! Finally a perfect score against HawkOnFire!! -- Alcatraz

Congratulations! How many rounds? Don't forget to show off your perfect surfing on the WaveSurfingChallenge. ;-) --David Alves

That perfection was only a fluke 35, but I have significantly improved the scores against Bot A. Now, can someone tell me why Cyanide scored 53% against Wesco, 81% against FloodMicro, and 57% against Terrible?? The scores against Barracuda and TimDog are great and yet that? In my tests here I got around a 96% against Wesco. I have seen nothing to indicate a significant bug that's caused that, but clearly I am missing something. What's going on?? -- Alcatraz

My conclusion is that either this was bad karma from not open-sourcing version 1.6 or that someone's client downloaded Cyanide during a time frame no larger than 10 seconds in which I had a non-functioning version uploaded. Being superstitious, I have released 1.6.0. -- Alcatraz

Yes, it's truly bad Karma not to open source your code! Good that you fixed that. The 53% and 57% score against Wesco and Terrible are a bit strange. Though in 35 rounds the random beast is very present. Maybe you have some problem with certain starting positions in your bot (that can happen as a result of working with dive-in protection) and you had lots of bad luck against those bots? Run 20 35-round battles against Wesco in RoboLeague and see if you're stable around 95%. -- PEZ

Well, I was unable to recreate the bad performances, but I think I solved it by fixing how BulletHitEvents and BulletHitBullets are recorded. We shall see. -- Alcatraz

I guess I'll wait for another 300 battles and then join The2000Club. :-D It's been a good two days. -- Alcatraz

Fixing bugs is never wrong. =) -- PEZ

Cool, your first join must be more than 2020 score. Just waiting..., Congratulations advance! -- iiley

Congratulations, u did it. --deathcon

I think this makes you the top ranking American to date as well. I think the best I ever did was in the 2025 range +/- a point or so. Congrats and I'll be back =^> -- jim

Well done! Your rating might have been even higher if the RR@H client hadn't forced so many fights vs. ProblemBots (58 battles vs. Shadow, a -11.7 ProblemBot, and 30 vs. PhoenixRRGC, a -10.4 ProblemBot) --David Alves

Multiple fights against ProblemBots do not affect your rating. I had the same reaction when looking at the code, but Albert asured me that all your pairings are recalculated when a new battle is submited to the server. The effect of a Problem bot fight will always be counter-ballanced by all your other pairings, making the momentm the important variable. -- ABC

That's not my impression after reading the code. Maybe I'm mistaken. --David Alves

Cool~~ First in with about 2030 high score~. -- iiley

2029 vs. 2027, let the competition for top US bot begin! ;-) --David Alves

Heh, I might not even make it to the next archived ranking as the top US bot. Maybe it's time to make a flattener that works. -- Alcatraz

Time for which one of us to make a flattener that works? I don't have a working one either. :-P Maybe we should collaborate to try and improve both of our bots... I'd like to see a US bot with the crown, even if it isn't me. :-) --David Alves

Go get 'em boys. Time to see the Starts and Stripes on top of the RR@H. -- jim

Not long ago I think Kawigi mentioned that he had some stuff he might like to put in a USA package. I suspect that either he's forgotten about that by now, or our wave surfing has surpassed that. But yeah, if either of you guys have any groundbreaking ideas... pass 'em along :-D -- Alcatraz

Hey Hey! been a lil far from rc, but seems that Alcatraz is beating u all in the usa team, is that right?... Congratulations, man, these r good news... Even more, since this may kind of challenge David, Jim & etc... Gooood mooooorning Vietnaaaam! -- Axe

And I think Alcatraz competes with ABC about having been in the Robocode game the longest, am I right? -- PEZ

I think so too, there are not many old robocoders play actively here now, ABC and Alcatraz are, maybe i am a old robocoder too, but not as old as them.:} -- iiley

Yep, we'd be the oldest. Except that ABC had one of the best bots even when I started. I might also be challenging deathcon for best score/age. 2025/17 is what? Anyway, thanks everyone for the congratulations on getting to 2k.

1st: dft.Cyanide 1.70	75529	25150	5030	40203	5146	0	0	505	495	0
2nd: pe.SandboxDT 3.02	73661	24750	4950	39093	4868	0	0	497	503	0

-- Alcatraz

2048! Congrats dude! This is the fifth strongest bot ever I think. -- PEZ

Do you think the jump from 2030 -> 2048 was mostly due to better movement or better targeting? -- David Alves

Yeah, that's a very valid question. It could be that the gun lowered performance 10 points or so and the movement improvement compensated that. Or vice versa. But as long as it is a forward jump things are cool I guess. =) -- PEZ

I think it was mostly movement that helped, just adding a new array of stats to segment on. I don't think the gun changes would've made more of a 5 point difference in either direction. -- Alcatraz

Not that TC scores are really translatable to RR@H scores. But it sure looks like you have rating points to collect by working on your gun! I wonder if you have created a movement that outperforms CassiusClay's... -- PEZ

Yeah, I guess I'll have to work on that. I've never liked nor had much success with targetting. I might create a bee version of Cyanide if you don't mind in order to see how many points I may be able to gain on my own. Lately, improving the movement has been very fun because everything I've done recently seems to be an improvement. Also, I have a significantly better version of Freddie waiting in the wings if it gets challenged soon in its current form. Makes me happy. :-) -- Alcatraz

Of course I don't mind if you try a Bee version. I've designed it on purpose in such a way that such experiments should be easy to make. -- PEZ

Hey, i just wonder to try a test with Bee Gun for my Pear, I'd tested and tweaked my Pear's movement millions times, and released thousands versions, it can't up to 2040(best about 2035), i think my movement must not be bad, maybe the larger problem was my Gun, do you mind PEZ? -- iiley

Yes, everybody but you can try Bee versions of their bots, iiley. Nah! Of course I don't mind man! =). -- PEZ

Ha~~Thank you PEZ, i'd packaged it just for your admission reply.~;] -- iiley

I may have implemented Bee wrong, as there was only a 4 point rating improvement. I did use the Bee from .89, hope that wasn't a mistake. Regardless, I made a slight improvement to my own gun. -- Alcatraz

Or it might means that you have a hell of a good gun there... Your advances are quite impressive, at least i´m impressed, congratulations! (btw: about v1.73, you do know that is a VERY bad idea to mess with both gun & movement at the same time, don´t u?) -- Axe

I don't think the gun is that great, at least the results in the various targetting challenges give me no reason to think so. I'm too lazy to try the RRGC. (And yeah... I know... and the first results coming in are all lower... but hey, hope springs eternal.) -- Alcatraz

As we use to say: Hope is the last to die, but it dies too... :) Just kiddin, of course... The first rule is NOT to mess with both gun & moving at the same version (even if it result in an improvement, u will never know witch improved your ranking). But of course rules are made to be broken, and the thin air of 2050+ made people (like me) really mad and insane sometimes, so it´s very understandable... -- axe

Hmm, my hope died rather quickly. Back to 1.72 it is! -- Alcatraz

Hey, welcome back to the rumble =) That's a really nice jump for your first version upon returning. -- Voidious

Yeah, I sort of picked a bad week since I have a lot of other work I ought to be doing. But RoboCoding is much more fun than homework programming. Anyway, that was a gun I basically had sitting around and had just never properly implemented. Question for you: you've mentioned a threshold/rating system several times with your AntiSurfer gun. Is that working on hit percentage, is it a combination of that and other things, or is it something else entirely? -- Alcatraz

Currently, it uses their VirtualGuns ratings as the threshold, but it's effectively almost exactly hit percentage because it's a RollingAverage between 0 and 1. Basically, if the Main Gun is rated over .22, I apply a penalty to the AntiSurfer gun when comparing the ratings; and now, over .26, I don't even consider the AntiSurfer gun. -- Voidious

• Oh, and the VirtualGuns system is a simple one integrated into the waves system. When firing a real bullet, I also fire a VirtualBullet with each of my guns, and record the GF each of them used; when the waves hit, it calculates the bot width and checks if the chosen GF was in that range. Then it's just 1 for a hit, 0 for a miss. -- Voidious

So I ended up just recorded a VB hit if the predicted index was where the hit was or adjacent to it. I suspect there will be some troublesome switching back and forth between guns that might harm my rating. Also, rewriting guns tends to create bugs. We shall see. -- Alcatraz