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Ok, the download link of the reference bots points to nothing. I'll check this evening if I have the zip at home. --GrubbmGait 11:56, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

I just checked here, and while I don't have this zip, I do have the zips of all the other targeting challenges this one gets it's bots from, so I could re-create this one later today if nobody finds it first. --Rednaxela 12:24, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Haha - so much for my suggestion... Nice job finding the right link, Nat. --Voidious 14:04, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I had to move my site to a temporary location, since I moved the main body to somewhere else. I will see if I can position the files somewhere they can more easily be found, on a more permanent basis. — Chase-san 15:04, 29 March 2011 (UTC)


Thread titleRepliesLast modified
Relationship between TCRM and hitrate1617:29, 11 July 2019
SandboxDT issue104:35, 16 November 2017
Targeting Challenge RM122:22, 25 December 2013

Relationship between TCRM and hitrate

According to my stats, a tcrm battle on average contains 1194.5213333333336 shots, ignoring 1.0 bullets, and given the hitrate as x, you get tcrm score = 1194.5213333333336 * 16 / 35 * x = 546.0668952380953x

for 100 tcrm score, the expected hitrate is 0.18312774656738373 and for 0.001 improvement in hitrate, you get 0.001 * 546.0668952380953 = 0.5460668952380954 improvement in tcrm score.

If the relationship is mostly linear, then you can just expect that, 0.55 diff in tcrm indicates only 0.001 in hitrate.

Question: is that worth it to work on tcrm scores so hard for only 0.001 hitrate?

Xor (talk)02:15, 9 July 2019

At first glance I would say no.

And doing some calculations, if the average points scored in a 35 round battle is ~5,000, and the average amount of bullets fired by you in a match is ~2,000, a gain of 0.001 in hitrate would mean that you hit 0.001 * 2,000 = 2 extra bullets per match.

The bullet damage done would go up to 20, assuming you are firing at a firepower of 2.

So if the prior score was 2500 / 5000 = 50%, a 0.001 hitrate gain would mean your score would go up to 2520 / 5020 = 50.4%.

But I took a lot of assumptions with my math and it's probably not super accurate.

Slugzilla (talk)06:20, 9 July 2019

And from practical perspective, my answer is no again. I have different guns with different tcrm score, however the best gun in tcrm generally performs even worse in rumble

The difference in tcrm score of those guns are ~0.5, sounds quite a lot, however after calc I know it’s only 0.001 However the best gun in rumble could score ~1.0 more APS than the worst (which, ironically, is the best gun in tcrm score) So I think it isn’t wise to improve tcrm score any more once the result is already among the best.

Maybe for gun challenges, we should create something more relevant to rumble score then.

Xor (talk)12:44, 9 July 2019

Hmm, we could make a Targeting Challenge 2k19

Slugzilla (talk)16:42, 9 July 2019

I would vote for the targets to fire a 1 power bullet away from you each time you fire. Then it would be more sensitive to small changes even at higher levels.

Skilgannon (talk)17:07, 9 July 2019

I am not sure about that. You get a bit more difference in bulletscore, but less difference in survival, at least against the good movers (which are the most interesting)

GrubbmGait (talk)17:20, 9 July 2019

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Return to Thread:Talk:Targeting Challenge RM/Relationship between TCRM and hitrate/reply (11).


I think the reverse of mc2k7 could be used

The reference bots will be using from mc2k7 for radar, gun and energy management

And the challengers use their own gun which fires 3.0 bullets where possible, and the movement should be a modified version of RaikoMicro’s, which allows prediction of one’s own movement. The appearance of the movement should be kept the same though.

Although bullet damage doesn’t scale to 100 in this case, since the only variable is your gun, all reference bots are given the same weight actually, scaling isn’t necessary.

Xor (talk)08:33, 10 July 2019

I like the idea of the reference bots using and the challengers using our own guns.

What type of bots should we have in the challenge? Maybe we should make the reference bots kind of match the LiteRumble population, so maybe ~20% wave surfers, ~50 random movement, and the rest oscillator/pattern movements?

I'm rather clueless on the average amount of each archetype in the LiteRumble, but I think these stats sound about right.

Slugzilla (talk)22:54, 10 July 2019

The problem of letting the reference bots to use real guns is that it further obscures the relationship between hitrate and score, and the randomness added from reference bots hitting you means more seasons must be used for reliable score.

However this makes bullet shadow possible, so that you can finally test your guns’ performance against bullet shadowers in tc.

Xor (talk)01:58, 11 July 2019

Another option would be to use a snapshot of the entire rumble However in this case we can’t control the guns

So that each opponent maybe given different weights, where normalization should be used to compensate

I think this approach should be the most relevant one to rumble score, however it makes relationship between hitrate and score unclear, if different opponents aren’t normalized well

Xor (talk)08:41, 10 July 2019

Or we could just plug in a component to calculate raw hit-rate, and maybe even patching roborunner to report this result directly in this case

Xor (talk)08:45, 10 July 2019

SandboxDT issue

I'm having problems running battles against SandboxDT release for this challenge. Can you guys reproduce this? If so, is this known? If not, are you using the jar provided in the reference bots package?

Rsalesc (talk)19:40, 15 November 2017

I think that’s because the version number in properties file is incorrect. IIRC I fixed that by modifying that and repacking it.

Xor (talk)04:35, 16 November 2017

Targeting Challenge RM

when will there be a better Targeting Challenge RM

Tmservo (talk)21:04, 25 December 2013

Please stop asking pointless questions or I will ban you.

Voidious (talk)22:22, 25 December 2013