Talk:Diamond/DiamondHawk

BulletPower

Hmm.. I just noticed that DiamondHawk has an unusually low survival percent for it's score. So I wonder, does this mean the core targeting of Diamond is better than the DiamondHawk test indicates, but the bulletpower is suboptimal, or does it mean that Diamond's core targeting wasn't that great at the time of DiamondHawk but most other bots of similar score are too conservative with their BulletPower. I'm pretty sure one of the two is true and it brings up an interesting question I think... --Rednaxela 19:23, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm really not sure, and it will be tough to figure out since the gun fundamentally changed after DiamondHawk 1.0. The DH 1.0 gun is definitely pretty weak (which is why I immediately followed it with gun work), but I thought the energy management was decent, and I'd found points there in the 1.24* versions. Unrelated, but I think the current gun has a lot of room for improvement via simple tweaks to bullet power and gun dimensions, since I haven't tweaked that stuff at all since getting my Shadow/Melee Gun working right (I think we need a term for this). --Voidious 20:45, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't think there are many points in tweaking the bullet power, what you gain in bullet damage you lose in survival, and vice versa. About a term for Shadow/Melee Gun, how about swarm targeting? --ABC 23:51, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

You might be able to get a few points out of bullet power by making smart choices, like firing closer to power 3 when the enemy's particularly close, or firing less powerful shots if you're very low on health, or firing with no more power than is needed to kill the enemy. -- Synapse 02:10, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Don't forget that the movement of HawkOnFire has a large weakness against LT and CT guns when only 2 or 3 bots are left. --GrubbmGait 20:27, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Swarm targeting... It reminds me of Area Targeting =) I think Polyenemy Targeting would fit better (or Multienemy/Omnienemy targeting). » Nat | Talk » 09:13, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

How about 'Density Targeting'?--Skilgannon 09:33, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

I think it is oldwiki:AreaTargeting, just a variant with angular sections like Chase-San suggested there, and often times with fancy prediction integrated in. --Rednaxela 12:51, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

It may be Area Targeting, but I don't think the term 'Area' fit well. Perhaps 'Density-based Angular Area targeting'? » Nat | Talk » 13:53, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

There's certainly a similar spirit to Area Targeting, but I think it's advanced enough beyond the original AT to warrant its own term. I think "Density" and "Swarm" are pretty good, though the latter reminds me of Swarm intelligence, which is kind of an opposite idea. Another possibility could be "Shadow Gun"... then both ABC's bots would have guns named after them. =) --Voidious 14:02, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

"ABC's Gun"? » Nat | Talk » 14:25, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Those seem fine to me, except "ABC's gun" seems to general (and in that case Tron's gun would probablyl be better). I think I'd call it... Overlayed DynamicClustering. Like normally you cluster on several headings to one enemy, and now you first overlay those with headings to other opponents. --Positive 15:02, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

I disagree on "Overlayed Dynamic Clusteringl". It can be use with GF/VCS too. » Nat | Talk » 15:31, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

It sounds slightly awkward, but I think the best description would be Future Density Targeting, because we aim at where we think the densest overlap of 'futures' is. Huh, this is starting to sound like a stockmarket =) --Skilgannon 15:45, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm tempted to propose Future Radial Density Targeting though that gets even more awkward. Or, perhaps since "Future" is implied in most targeting methods, maybe it should just be Radial Density Targeting? --Rednaxela 17:51, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

(edit conflict) What exactly is being named? Because I consider the essential part of Shadow's melee gun the fact it targets based in all enemies, and not how you decide to aim each. Right now YersiniaPestis predicts HOT, Linear and Circular targeting for each bot, and then aim using the strategy of Shadow about aiming at everyone. Diamond uses displacement vector if I remember correctly (to lazy to go check). Shadow uses DC-PIF. And I think you could do about anything to find possible locations of bots. A codesize restricted bot could use only HOT for every bot and is probably better than just HOT against his closest enemy.

I think the general strategy should be called either Swarm, Density or Overlayed to define the part of aiming at everyone at the same time, I'll refer to this as swarm targeting as it is the name ABC has said up until now. Something that expresses the quote from ABS's explanation "will hit someone, somewhere".

And then have different branches or implementations referring to how you predict those positions. Shadow's gun would be using DC-PIF with the swarm targeting. Diamond would be something like DC-Displacement with swarm targeting. YersiniaPestis is simple targeting with swarm targeting. --zyx 17:52, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

'Flock-targeting' is yet another possibility. It also sounds a bit like 'Flak', that is/was used to shoot at airplanes. --GrubbmGait 20:27, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Also I think this discussion should be moved to Talk:Shadow/Melee Gun, it has very little to do with DiamondHawk's bullet power selection :-). --zyx 17:55, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

HoT gun

Hey Void, I was wondering if you and maybe some of the other big guns (Positive, Red, ABC..) would be interested in releasing a HeadOn Targeting Version your Bots... I realise you guys don't "Target an Enemy" so perhaps we could stick to this theme and target like HoF... a DiamondOnFire ? I'm currently re-writting a new DC style gun...(time consumming) but a DemonicRageOnFire would take only a few minutes :) You guys wanna bench melee movements ? -Jlm0924 00:05, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

That should be pretty easy to do. I think I actually still have a HoT targeting commented out in Diamond. We can kinda tell our movement strength already by calculating the difference between our bots and our *Hawk versions. Anyway, I'll have to check into it next week, as I'm a bit busy with Thanksgiving (that USA holiday =)) through this weekend... --Voidious 01:04, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Nice idea. Do you propose that for both 1v2+ and 1v1, or just 1v2+? --Positive 01:41, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

I never thought of that Void...I never did the Hawk version as I figured DR needed a new gun anyway :) not sure if theres good reason... but maybe you'll think of one :) Positve: I was thinking (1v2+ and our 1v1 with our radar), while using hawks (enemy selection,bulletPower,HO-targeting) that should isolate movement for comparison. _Jlm0924 07:01, 24 November 2009 (UTC)