Talk:Main Page

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Revision as of 01:39, 15 May 2010 by Nat (talk | contribs) (→‎"Robocode Guidebook": Robocode JGAP like logo)
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Why is the "Robo Wiki" icon in the upper left corner so small?

The headline speaks for itself. --Awesomeness 21:08, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

So small? It seems just right to me really. --Rednaxela 21:56, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Because it is the same size as the old wiki =) » Nat | Talk » 23:41, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Does robo rumble work?

hi im new to robocode, been doing it as part of my uni course and i was wondering, is it possible to run roborumble at home anymore because ive follwed the instructions and none of the battles ive been doing have been uploading.... Quietus 15:47, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Yep! It sure as he heck still works! The thing is, the rumble.fervir.com server has been kind of broken for a while. You need to point your client at this URL instead now (See here for more information). There's new fanciness in that server too :) --Rednaxela 19:48, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Article count

A couple questions about the article count (after having some trouble Googling for answers). First, why isn't it updating automatically? Is that something I can trigger to update, or add to the "job queue", does anyone know? (Notice if you edit / preview it is higher than 43, which it reads on the main page right now.) Second, what qualifies as an "article"? Is there a minimum length that a page needs to be (other than not being a user or talk page) to qualify as an article? --Voidious 19:56, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

The main page just updated, it now says 48 articles. Also, the statistics page says that there are 145 pages total, but it is excluding, "talk pages, pages about RoboWiki, minimal 'stub' pages, redirects, and others that probably don't qualify as content pages." --AaronR 20:00, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

According to the MediaWiki wiki (now that's a mouthful), the main page will come up to date as soon as its HTML cache is invalidated, at which point all of the templates, etc. will be transcluded again. Don't know if that helps... --AaronR 20:27, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Font size

Just out of curiosity, why is the font size so large here compared to, say, Wikipedia? I know, I know, it's the same as the old wiki's font, but that wiki didn't have a sidebar. --AaronR 07:04, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Primarily because I thought "x-small" was just too small, and yes, it was also just sooo much smaller than the old wiki. I also figured that with the skins options, we could easily give people more choices to choose their own style, anyway. I will confess that tiny fonts for the sake of sleeker designs is a major pet peeve of mine. :-P --Voidious 07:12, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Smileys :-)

I would be relly nice if we could somehow support smile, e.g. just as simple as stating: 

[[Image:HappySmiley.png]]

--Flemming N. Larsen 09:04, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Wikimedia Commons has a whole section of GFDL'd or public domain smileys (look at the link at the bottom for more). I don't really see the point though. If you want to upload them and use them, feel free, but I'll stick with =) on the wiki. --AaronR 01:21, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Old wiki

The old wiki is not working (error 500), and so my roborumble client (it cannot find the list of partecipants), but i see many client is uploading. What is your solution? --Lestofante 10:35, 1 Dic 2008 (UTC)

The clients currently running are just using the last copy of the participants list they downloaded from the old wiki. I emailed PEZ a bit ago and got a reply that he'll look into it so hopefully the old wiki will be up again in not too long. If that ends up taking longer than expected though, we could update/fix the participants page on the new wiki and point clients at that instead. (Note: Don't point clients at the one on the new wiki just yet, it's out of date and such. It needs to be copied over from a downloaded copy of the list from the old wiki) --Rednaxela 12:00, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

maybe we can drop definitely the old wiki for roborumble client, or better every ramble server can implements it's own participants list, maybe integrated with general wiki list --Lestofante 15:13, 1 Dic 2008 (UTC)

I'd agree that migrating to using the new wiki participants list would be good, though I think some more veteran wikiers/rumblers than myself should give their input before any such switch is made 'official'. As far as keeping a participants list with the rumble server, well, there's only one working rumble server at the moment so I'm not sure what good that would do, and furthermore multiple rumble server would be a bad thing I think becacuse it would divide the processing power that goes towards making the battles. --Rednaxela 17:47, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

That's right, then I thing the server have to had a mirror of the wiki's official participants list, so in this case we can continue run our client, simple we cannot modify the list (if the two list are not synchronize together) --Lestofante 21:49, 1 Dic 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, the real problem is getting the participants list from the currently-erroring wiki. The RR client has no problem parsing the new wiki format. I may be able to get that from the RoboWiki server when I get home (if it isn't fixed before then).

The other issue we might encounter in the future would be when we move this wiki to robowiki.net, and we have RR clients pointing to testwiki.roborumble.org, but I don't think forwarding that URL and/or having people update their clients would be a big issue. I'm glad you contacted PEZ about the old wiki's current problems, I've been out of touch for at least a week...

--Voidious 19:03, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Okay to mention it here as well for people who haven't been checking up on it... The old wiki is back up! --Rednaxela 18:43, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

mailer error

I'm trying to confirm my user e-mail, but I still get "mailer error". I've tried 3 different and working address... and there is a way for automatically sign the edits? --Lestofante 22:00, 1 Dic 2008 (UTC)

I couldn't get the mailer to work either, but you can easily sign your edits using --~~~~. See http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cheatsheet for more tricks. --Darkcanuck 03:13, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

InterWiki Links

Who have fully access to this server apart from David Alves? I want both my thai wiki and this wiki a inter-languages link. Please look here for more detailed. » Nat | Talk » 15:16, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

I have full access, or at least I do if I can remember the password. =) I'll see about logging in and taking a look at the InterWiki stuff. Sorry it took so long to respond about this. --Voidious 14:50, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Hey Voidious, I believed that the SQL will take less than 1 seconds to copy/past/execute. Plus login/connecting time I think this can be accomplished within a minute so please do asap (or I must say NOW). » Nat | Talk » 16:19, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Hey Nat - I will add the InterWiki link because I'd like to support your efforts to start a Thai Robocode community and wiki. But I really don't appreciate being commanded to do that (or much of anything, really), and especially to do so "NOW". Please keep in mind the RoboWiki's only rule: "Pretty please be polite." --Voidious 18:48, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Cool, I read up on the InterWiki stuff, added your Thai wiki to the database, and posted a link on the main page. As I can't read Thai, please make sure that looks right and edit it if necessary. =) --Voidious 22:54, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Sorry for that rude. But anyways, thank you very much. The link at main page is correct. » Nat | Talk » 01:37, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Database error

I didn't know where to put this, but here seems like a decent spot. All my posts are getting this message today (4 times, probably 5 with this one), the posts are still uploaded but the message is: 

A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software.
The last attempted database query was:
(SQL query hidden)
from within function "SearchMySQL4::update".
MySQL returned error "126: Incorrect key file for table './wikidb/searchindex.MYI'; try to repair it (localhost)".

I don't know if localhost is meant to be from mine point of view, or the server's. Maybe someone else is getting the same messages, I haven't tried to logout/in, because I just thought of that. --zyx 23:47, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Just like when you go to the mechanic, I didn't get the message this time. Another piece of information may be that all the other 4 posts where at Talk:PwnBot‎, so maybe the problem relies in that page. --zyx 23:49, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
I found some mentions of people hitting this, and it sounds like a "repair table" SQL command is the remedy. I've run that now, so hopefully it's fixed. Can you let me know if it happens again? Thanks, --Voidious 00:31, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
Just got it again, and again in the same page Talk:PwnBot‎. --zyx 20:45, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the info. I saw it as well when I posted the downtime note. I'm guessing the server crashing corrupted the searchindex table -- I'll rerun the "repair table" and post here when I do. I'll also be backing up the database very soon. --Voidious 20:52, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
Is it... My fault?! I created that page. It seems whenever I change a page I get it too. It doesn't matter what page I go to. Also, for the majority of today, (for me at least) it seems your server has been down. I've been unable to connect. --Awesomeness 22:04, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
It's not your fault, and I saw it on another page too. The server went down for a while as of last night, still not sure what happened, but glad it's back up. I've rerun the "repair table" command, so I think that database error will go away for now. --Voidious 22:06, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
I now know why I can't access the wiki (and roborumble.org) yesterday. Night there, afternoon here. » Nat | Talk » 00:25, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

SourceForge.net Community Choices Awards

http://sourceforge.net/images/cca/cca_nominate.png

Please nominate Robocode to SourceForge.net Community Choices Awards!
Nominate Robocode

Anyone mind to put this to MediaWiki:Sitenotice or front page? I not sure if I can post to front page. » Nat | Talk » 10:21, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Please nominate Robocode in category of "Best Project for Academia" and "Most Likely to Change the Way You Do Everything". If you nominate to another category, please post here so other robocoder can nominate in same categories (note that you can nominate in multiple categories) Nevertheless, please nominate! » Nat | Talk » 11:26, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Special:Disambiguations

Do anyone know why the Special:Disambiguations has spammy report? » Nat | Talk » 11:23, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Image Uploads

It looks like the image uploads folder is not set as writable to the wiki. Is this expected to change? -- Synapse 05:27, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Haven't test yet. If this is true, I think this problem cause due the upgrading of MediaWiki. Voidious, check it please? Another note to Voidious, MediaWiki/1.15 just release =) » Nat | Talk » 13:29, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Not sure why it stopped working, but I'll take a look at the image uploads and upgrading MediaWiki this afternoon. (And making a mental note to test that whenever I upgrade. =)) --Voidious 15:41, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Fixed the uploading issue and upgraded MedaWiki to 1.15. Enjoy. =) --Voidious 20:10, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

/wiki/PageName-style url

Recently this day I noticed that the /wiki/PageName-style URL is now work. Voidious, why don't you set the $wgArticlePath = "/wiki/$1" in LocalSettings.php? And I wonder why the old server at 174.132.4.195 now has new wiki code, and available in both /wiki/PageName and ?PageName style (but not /w/index.php?title=PageName style). What's going on? » Nat | Talk » 12:56, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Syntax Highlighting

It would be great if we could have syntax highlighting for code snippets. This would make code snippets easier to read. Currently, if I want to read a code snippet from the wiki, I would copy and paste it into my favourite text editor.

Wikipedia itself seems to use SyntaxHighlight GeSHi.—

Duyn 14:56, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

User:Voidious/RoboWiki_To-Do --Nat Pavasant 13:41, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, that's been on my to-do list for a while, I'll try to get it up and running soon. Can't be too tough. =) --Voidious 16:12, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Favicon

I just noticed that the new Robowiki doesn't have a favicon. This is easily remedied by copying http://old.robowiki.net/favicon.ico so that it is accessible at http://robowiki.net/favicon.ico --Skilgannon 18:00, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Will do. --Voidious 16:12, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Robocode on Wikipedia

Well, wikipedia:Robocode article is just challenged for reference, as well as a original research. Please help it by adding reference. --Nat Pavasant 15:09, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Honestly, I believe many things on the wikipedia article, at least 2/3rds of the page, just plain don't belong on Wikiedia, due to valid reasons. In fact I'm not sure anything beyond the overview and the first two sections belong, given how Wikipedia's 'original research' and 'notability' criteria apply to such sections. Even those sections which do make sense to keep to desperately need citations. Essentially, I don't feel the sections added by PEZ fit wikipedia's criteria for what belongs. So... I think it does deserve to be challenged for good reason. I don't have time to improve what should stay though. --Rednaxela 16:39, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

I'll make more comments on the Wikipedia talk page, but I agree it needs a lot of cleanup and I'm willing to help out with that. I half agree with Rednaxela. The overview and first 2 sections are fine and neutral. The rest could use a lot of cleaning up, but I don't think it all needs just to be axed. Some editing down / revising / adding citations should do the trick. (I think the RoboWiki is a "reliable source"? If not, I don't know what is.) --Voidious 19:03, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Well, while I would personally consider Robowiki a "reliable source" for my own purposes, it seems to me it violates some of what is noted on Wikipedia:Verifiability#Self-published_sources, in particular how it notes "open wikis" among other things as "largely not acceptable". Also, note the "no original research" policies, and consider that much of the purpose of Robowiki is for "original research". There is a significant difference between a source one trusts, and a source that fits Wikipedia's rules. --Rednaxela 01:54, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
Hmm, thanks. I really don't know much about Wikipedia's policies, but just starting to read up on it now. In that case, you are probably right that a lot of stuff needs to just be axed... --Voidious 13:46, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

"Robocode Guidebook"

The other day I was thinking it was a pity that it isn't that easy to get into Robocode really. Sure, we have a "Getting Started" page but that's pretty loose. I was then reminded about Wikibooks. So here's a question: Who thinks it might be a good idea to make a fairly self-contained "Robocode Guidebook" of a similar style to the things on Wikibooks? Many existing tutorials could probably be moved in or adapted, though trying to organize things in that format might, 1) Reveal things that need tutorials still, and 2) Make it easier for a newcomer to follow. Thoughts? --Rednaxela 13:37, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

I need to check out Wikibooks to see the "style", but it sounds like a great idea if we can find people with the time. I'd certainly be happy to contribute. I try to visit the RoboWiki with a "newbie mind" sometimes, and there is definitely a lot of work to be done... --Voidious 13:52, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
It sounds like a good idea to me. I started robocode less than a month ago and I could tell you what I would find helpful / not helpful etc. If you decide to do it and need me help feel free to ask :) --Exauge 21:03, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
I think your input would be very useful. Many of us have been at this for months/years, so it's easy to lose perspective. =) --Voidious 21:49, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
Which brings up another point I wanted to make... It seems important to consider target audience, since there's such a wide range of backgrounds of people that come to Robocode. They may have Java experience and fresh-in-mind trig knowledge, or be new to programming entirely and don't know/forgot trig and other maths. Of course, ideally we write something that anybody can learn from, but target audience definitely affects the style and pace. --Voidious 21:49, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
I think there are a lot of basic of Java book out there, so I don't think we need to write about Java or OOP. But we should have basic trig cuz even programmers may have forgotten about trig already (if you didn't work with geometry/graphics that is) --Nat Pavasant 05:43, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
Yes! ... " Robocode cookbook " ?? :) I would highly suggest a collection of sample AdvancedRobots (in their own directory) packaged with robocode. With a link in the help menu to the "Guide". Include a sample AdvancedRobot with a decent 'base' for melee. It took me 5 years of fighting with ways of storing info for melee. (homeMade silliness) because API's are difficult to understand... (Only to make use of module after) Include useful utils like 'project'.. helps make Trig easy... and If I knew eclipse would of made learning java easier I would switched over from the robocode editor much sooner.. (just some pointers... I gotta run:) -Jlm0924 22:36, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Well, what I had in mind was making it a relatively linear book-like guide, and progress through the basics very gradually like follows:
Part 1: The basics

  1. How to get Robocode and run a battle in it
  2. How to set up an environment for making a robot in:
    1. With builtin editor in Robocode
    2. With a text editor command line compilation
    3. With Eclipse
  3. How to make a do-nothing robot
    • Optional Java Sub-Lesson: Anatomy of a Java class
  4. Overview of robocode physics, and anatomy of the robocode turn and execution cycle
  5. How to make the robot move in a straight line, and then how to make it move in a circle
  6. How to turn the gun and fire
  7. How to scan, and fire directly at the scanned robot
  8. How to perform very simple ramming
  9. How to perform very simply orbiting
  10. How to to respond to hitting the wall (bounce off)
    • Optional Geometry Sub-lesson: Perpendicularity and how moving perpendicular
  11. How to print to the robot console and make debugging graphics, and how to view them in the battle
  12. How to find the coordinates of a scanned enemy, and paint a box around them in debugging graphics
    • Optional Trigonometry Sub-lesson: How to convert an angle and distance, into relative coordinates
  13. How to perform iterative linear targeting using this
    • Optional Trigonometry Sub-lesson: Pythagorean Theorem - How to get the distance between coordinates
    • Optional Trigonometry Sub-lesson: How to get the angle of a vector
    • Sub-lesson: Concepts of iterative prediction
  14. How to perform approximate non-iterative targeting
    • Optional Trigonmetry Sub-lesson: The math behind the non-iterative approximation
  15. More?

Part 2: Improved Techniques

  1. How to randomly change direction in a simple way
    • Allude to possible improvements, like factoring in bullet-flight-time Raiko-style
  2. How to detect enemy firing, to make a simple stop-and-go movement
  3. Simple pattern matching
  4. Wall smoothing
  5. Melee enemy tracking and target selection
  6. Anti-gravity movement
  7. Competition (Roborumble) and testing (general testing advice)
  8. More?

Part 3: Advanced Techniques

  1. Some common ways to make bot code more modular
  2. Minimum risk movement
  3. Introduction to "Waves"
  4. Simple unsegmented guessfactor targeting
  5. Segmented guessfactor targeting
    • Mention non-guessfactor segmented targeting (i.e. PastFuture)
  6. Simple (no trees) DC targeting
    • Both Guessfactor and PIF based
  7. Simple 'Virtual Guns'
  8. How to deal with rammers
  9. More?

Part 4: Elaborate Techniques

  1. Timing nitpicks, revisiting the execution cycle
    • Consider how enemies see you with a delay, and vice versa
    • Consider how one's own gun rotation is for one's location next turn, not this turn
    • How to predict one's next location, for extra precision
    • Very Briefly mention imaginary gunheat waves maybe?
  2. Basics of team robots
  3. Wave surfing
  4. Anti-surfer techniques
  5. Precise wave intersections
  6. Neural targeting
  7. Wisdom on combining many VCS buffers, combining multiple targeting systems, etc
  8. More?

All sections using AdvancedRobot/TeamRobot, never plain Robot of JuniorRobot. Any thoughts? :) --Rednaxela 06:17, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Wow, I see you've already put a lot of thought into this. Cool! I'd be happy to start working on drafts for whatever sections if you want to take the lead in handing out assignments. =) Though I may be pretty busy with work for a few days here.

Just brainstorming - I'm not necessarily 100% in favor of any of these ideas:

  • It might be neat to have a few challenges sprinkled in, maybe to end chapters or sections. For instance, "beat this RamBot", or "out-survive sample.MyFirstRobot without firing" (I think I stole that one from Kawigi).
  • Why completely exclude Robot/JuniorRobot? I think a lot of Robocode beginners are using these. Sometimes they have no choice, since it's specified as part of their assignment.
  • RoboResearch might be a good topic. It can be a pain to setup and get running, but it is just such a must-have tool, imo.
  • Wave Surfing could practically be its own top level section as we get more advanced. It's a pretty broad category of movement.
  • It might be fun to touch on a few random topics somewhere, like Twin Duel, large battle fields, Droids, "perceptual" bots. But of course that seems like a low priority.

--Voidious 15:52, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

This is an excellent and I really love the idea! I have had something similar in mind for some time, but never had the time for it. I think you experienced Robocoders will be much better at writing this guide book than me, as I don't go deep into robot developing, but put most efforts into developing the game itself. If you need me to write parts of this guide, please tell be which parts you have in mind, and I will see what I can do. :-) I will definitely keep an eye on this page, which I think will be VERY important for newcomers and as a kind of reference book when it is finished. :-) Don't forget pictures! ;-) --Fnl 20:32, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure I like Wikibooks' use of a Copyleft license, though: GNU Free Documentation License. I imagine a lot of the content going into this book could be related to content on this wiki, either derived from a RoboWiki article, or it could form the basis of a new/revised article. I'm not sure about committing everything on this wiki to that license, which would be required for the latter... (unless just those specific RoboWiki articles use that license, which I guess is do-able, but seems like a big headache.) --Voidious 21:50, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Actually I'd like CC-BY-SA license with this wiki (see Robowiki_talk:Copyrights). One thing I'd like to comment about the outline, I don't think the Elaborate Techniques part is required. If you understand basic of the first three parts, you should be able to understand the fourth part with information on this wiki. Anyway, many, many interesting things on this wiki are hidden under the massive talk on the old wiki. --Nat Pavasant 05:32, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

@Voidious: Well, personally, I feel that JuniorRobot and plain Robot are no easier than AdvancedRobot, and the mindset/thinking required to code each effectively is very different. About licence, I wasn't thinking of putting this guide on Wikibooks, just on this wiki like any other articles. I was only mentioning Wikibooks for the general style of how to organize a 'book' on mediawiki and such.
@Fnl: Alright. Indeed, pictures are good ;)
@Nat: Well, I'm not sure the "elaborate techniques" section is as needed either, but for completeness I think would be nice to include it. I do definitely consider the earlier sections to be much higher priority than the later sections personally.
--Rednaxela 06:02, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

I played around in photoshop a little bit and made somewhat of an icon or w/e to put on first page of the guidebook. If you don't like it feel absolutely free not to use it. anyways here it is.

Robocookbook.png

--Exauge 21:10, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Cool! ... I think if you changed just the "Robo" to the same style as used for "Robocode"; It might be irrestible... ;) (Hey, If they don't take it ; You'll have the snaziest Snippet Page :).. Good job... -Jlm0924 is jealous ;) 23:45, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Alright made the change, how's this look?

Robocodecookbook.png

--Exauge 00:00, 15 May 2010 (UTC) -

- dame your fast! I liked what you had better, though :) I meant if Robo was thicker and divided up like it is on the up screen..(or web page) -Jlm0924 00:15, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
you mean like the top one only the robo wider? and ya i came to check about 2 minutes after u made the comment ;) the change wasnt too hard to do. --Exauge 00:33, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

I'd suggest Robocode JGAP-like logo. I'd make one when I'm home. --Nat Pavasant

RoboCode Chat / IM

So it is to my understanding that currently the only real way for robocoders to talk is on talk pages on this wiki so I had this idea... what if we had an IM type web chat system for Robocoders to talk :) within a few months i could probably get a website set up to do that and it would use the open-source AJAX project. What do you all think of the idea? --Exauge 00:33, 15 May 2010 (UTC) I think we have an (deserted) IRC channel (or not?). But actually I do chat with some Robocoder through GTalk and e-mail. --Nat Pavasant 00:38, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

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