Archived talk:User:Nat 20090406

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Just wanted to say welcome, and glad you're already making yourself at home. :-) Best of luck with your bots! --Voidious 21:59, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, Voidious for your warm welcome! Therefore, I think my robots have the best luck already :) (How many time you see 3-months-experienced robocode programmer has his robot in top 10?) --Nat 07:51, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Hey, I have problem with the old wiki! I can't update participant list! Does anyone know what happen? --Nat

Maybe you're running into the protection the old wiki had against edits which modify too many external urls at once? It did have an anti-spam measure where edits that added/changed too many urls would silently be dropped. If this is it could can just spread your editing of the list over multiple edits to make it work --Rednaxela 17:41, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

  • Thanks, I will move all my bot to my new download page (http://nat.robothai.net/robots/) I'm changing 6 urls on Participants page and 3 urls on MeleeParticepants page. I soon found out that the limit is 2 urls. I have one question to ask, is it your code? If it is, could you increase that? I must scroll to bottom of the page to edit it again. » Nat | Talk » 13:52, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Hi, I've read about your competitions. You are very lucky to have such contests in you country. And the prizes are nice, too. ;) --HUNRobar 17:45, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, Robar!

Robocode Question

To all robocoders, I've some question:

  1. How many of you still active? I have some list that I post to Robar, but I really know how many are they?
  2. David Alves start developing roborumble.org since 2007, 2 years passed, nothing happen! Where is him
  3. Are still Paul, Kawigi, David Alves and many more remember robocode?
  4. Is ABC take a break from robocode?
  5. Are Voidious and other robocoder still active or semi-active?
  6. Are there anyone except me, Robar and CrazyBassoonist‎ still developing their robot? Almost every bot is the same as last six months.

These are stupid questions, but feel lonely in this robocode world now. I'm almost last user entered robocode community. (Not sure on which me or CrazyBassoonist is last.) I've read on (mostly) quality articles by Paul, Kawigi, David Alves, ABC and many others. (these 4 people is one who I want to talk to) Thanks. » Nat | Talk » 13:52, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

I'm active, as is Rednaxela. I haven't been doing much with my bots mostly due to lack of time. In the limited time for testing that I have had, the changes that I tried didn't help, so I haven't released a new DrussGT. My melee wavesurfing algorithm is about half completed. So far I can keep track of all the waves that get (or may have been) fired. I still have to add some logic for deciding which wave hit a bot based on which firing bot gets an energy bonus. But it's already a monster... --Skilgannon 14:58, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Like Skilgannon noted, I'm active. Well, as far as David Alvis and roborumble.org, it's a matter of life being busy and getting in the way. See this post for more information. Paul/Kawigi/David I don't know details of indeed haven't been active. ABC did make some tweaks to Shadow a few months ago I believe so not entirely inactive, not to mention he put significant effort into hosting a temporary RR server during the transition between the old one and DarkCanuck's one, and also is to credit for nice things like the shiney LRP graph on DarkCanuck's server. Some like Kev have been mostly sleeping, though Kev was briefly awoken by LunarTwins taking the crown he held in TwinDuel, and also to make a multiple choice pattern matcher in attempt to take the micro crown. GrubbmGait while inactive in 2008, has here expressed intent to be more active in 2009. As far as "still developing their robot", I believe a number of people, such as myself are not actively working on any robot we already have released much, but instead are slowing working on new robots/ideas. Personally class is keeping me rather busy, but I am squeezing in some Robocoding time, which I was earlier spending on SaphireEdge and more recently on the SaphireSlippers (speaking of which I just had some promising results for yesterday). --Rednaxela 15:30, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Hi! I saw you uploaded nano.AW at almost the same time I did with nano.Prestige. :) Great one, but not better than Prestige. :P Take a look at fighting each other, both in rankings and battles. ;) --HUNRobar 20:43, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Like almost all my nano bots, it fully fooled PM! Like almost my nano bots again, it use WeekendObsession's gun. It my test bot to your AOM idea. I not expect much, it stuck at wall often. » Nat | Talk » 09:51, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Melee wavesurfing

In reply to your question: 

I think I must keep track of enemy gunheat instead of energy drop.
I also think that TrueSurf is impossible for extend-robot so I
''must'' use goto-style surfing. Anyone have idea?

Here are my thoughts:

In some ways, I would say the challenge is similar to that of melee wavesurfing which I've been thinking about, because in both you cannot keep a constant radar lock. I'd agree that you need be tracking gunheat in order to get reasonable precision with it. Here's the way I'd do it:

  • Every time you see the enemy, do energy based calculations to see if they've fired since you last saw them, and if so, how powerfully they fired.
  • Use gunheat tracking which presumes they always fire as soon as possible, in order to estimate WHICH tick tick they fired on and place the wave accordingly.
  • In the event that they don't fire between times that you've seen them and their gunheat is 0, then your gunheat tracking data for the next time they fire is invalid for sure, and you'd either have to presume they fired in the middle of the time you didn't see them OR start making waves for every tick they could have fired during. Generally, this would not be an issue because this would only happen if they stopped firing.
  • To know where they fired from you need to use interpolation of their location of course

That's the approach I'd take to melee/extend-robot wavesurfing anyways. Really, I'd say the only difference between melee goto wavesurfing, and extend-robot wavesurfing, would be that the extend-robot also wouldn't be able to turn while moving forward or scan while moving. The basic challenges in the algorithm seem the same to me.

--Rednaxela 21:14, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

Well, I think melee wavesurfing is too hard ;) I had seen melee wavesurfing challenge, and I saw that almost index is under 1! Turning doesn't take too long if velocity is zero but I must have a very unique precise predictor. In order to get enemy fire time if his/her gunheat is still zero, I think I'll use statistic-base algorithm. I also think that some bot doesn't fire until its gun correctly aligned. I think I must use the onHitByBullet plus some enemy gun projection in order to place wave correctly. Here are some more of my ideas for it (which can add to your above):

  • Don't remove waves until it fully out of battlefield.
  • If you get hit by bullet, calculate how many tick it flight and set new gunheat.
  • In a rare case of 2 bullets were flight during missing scans, I don't know how to do!

» Nat | Talk » 12:26, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

The2XXXClub

Just asking, I think now, all those The2XXXClub are harder to entered since now, we can create a strong robot with copy and past from this wiki! Ot, maybe some problem on Darkcanuck's ELO calculation. Should we change from ELO rating to Glicko-2 system there? I know that it MUCH over than the ELO rating. Or we need The8500Club (note the APS score!) :) » Nat | Talk » 19:38, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

When the set of pairings is incomplete, Glicko-2 is the most accurate, and when the set of pairings is complete, it gives the same ranking as APS so far as I can see. Therefore I do think that Glicko-2 is the best system. As far as changing club names, I don't think we need to: What I think needs to happen, is Darkcanuck adjust the parameters of the Glicko-2 so that values match the existing clubs and such, after all the Glicko-2 algorithm itself doesn't specify the scaling ;) --Rednaxela 19:54, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

So I can enter The2000Club if my Glicko-2 reating reach 2000 even the ELO does not? If that so, the club will be a LOT larger :) (top 42 bots are in there with Glocko-2) » Nat | Talk » 13:05, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

No no, that's not what I mean, I mean that Darkcanuck shoud tweak the scaling of the Glicko-2 scores so they mroe closely match the most stable ELO ones in general. --Rednaxela 14:31, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

The exactly question I'm asking is, the ELO rating are LOT harder, still we will use that ELO for the club? » Nat | Talk » 15:17, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

I think the Glicko-2 should be scaled so that DrussGT is ~2150 and RaikoMX ~2030. It seems that with the ELO as more battles are run it tends to compress the ratings. --Skilgannon 19:10, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Multiply the Glicko-2 by 0.98 is good. DurssGT at 2141 and RaikoMX at 2021 or multiply the ELO there by 1.02 should be fine for now, shall it? » Nat | Talk » 19:29, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

No, the ratings 'center' at 1600. So multiplying the Glicko-2 'spread' by ~0.939 would be correct. --Skilgannon 19:57, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

So if I get 2026 Glicko-2, can I assume that I've a ticket for The2000Club? » Nat | Talk » 20:14, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

New Thai RoboWiki

Hi, I'm now getting the new thai robowiki (http://wiki.robothai.net/) running. I'd want to know who is this wiki administrator? I'd like him/her to just process one database query for me (I talk to you, Voidious) :) 

INSERT INTO `(whatever prefix or not)interwiki` VALUES('th','http://wiki.robothai.net/wiki/$1',0,0);

That's all, I just want the interlanguage link between two wikis. I've finish set up on my wiki. You'll see that English link at the language box in the left :) » Nat | Talk » 17:39, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

About compiling robots

Hi! I took a look at OcnirpSNG and WeekendObsession in NetBeans and I was totally surprised! My codesize calculated Ocnirp 250 bytes and WeekendObsession 253 bytes. But both of them are under-250 byte nanos! I'm really wonder what you compile your robots with. I have my new nano with 250 bytes, so it's very crucial for me. --HUNRobar 21:01, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Apparently compiling with Jikes shaves a few bytes off sometimes. I never bother though because it's only a small number --Rednaxela 21:39, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Note, I use eclipse to compile my robot. Don't know what compiler it use, but it seem that it can reduce more codesize =D » Nat | Talk » 12:11, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Hurray! I made an Eclipse project for my bots and almost all of them gained 2-4 bytes! I think I must figure out something to develop on them. For instance, my new nano is 247 bytes now.

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