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It was about time ;-) Ranking somewhere in the lower sub-top in one-on-one and melee, outperformed by your own micro and minibots in melee and in teams not even in the top-10 anymore (thanks to yourself). If anyone is able to breach the wall set by Rozu and ABC in melee, is will be you, regarding Shiz and Coriantumr. Looking forward to your release . . . -- GrubbmGait

When is it coming? If you already had a victory (a lucky one, probably ;)) against Aleph, why not releasing that 0.9 version?

I did some experiments with an anti-AG gun, but never went all the way with it. I would need to restructure my current gun classes. Keep in mind that movement is the most important factor in the rumble, though. The amount of gun data you collect in 35 rounds is minimal, my current gun only starts to really kick ass after around 100 rounds. -- ABC

If a gun could be that good quickly, it makes a big difference. The difference, assuming good movement, is that when you get to the point of being up against one opponent where one of you will probably have to go, it's what makes it so that you live with next to no net damage and the other bot dies. One main reason I'm not in a releasable state is that I need to lock down my saved data story, which could have a noticeable additional impact on its melee standing (both battles posted above were with clean data, though, as well as clean data for everyone else). Expect to see this out in the next 2 weeks, though, when I have team code ported and data storage figured out. -- Kawigi

I agree a good gun makes a difference, but is it really that big? How do you explain Tron 2.02 scoring higher than DT? -- ABC

It is not only important how you do against other topbots, but also how efficient you eradicate the simple and mediocre bots. Pitch in two topbots (lets say the new FloodHT and Aleph) with 8 mediocre bots (ranking 30-70) and lets see how the topbots compare then. -- GrubbmGait

For sure, beating the simple bots by big margins is one of Tron's advantages, no GF gun can reach my gun's effectivness against pattern moving bots. But there are also some negatives effects of the random way the rumble chooses bots for melee. If you run a melee battle with one top bot and 9 simple bots, it will result in a much bigger score difference than if you run that same top bot with a mix of goood/bad opponents. It will probably still win compared to the simple bots, but the margin will be much smaller than in the first battle. I think that contributes to the lack of stability of the melee rankings. If I keep my melee rumble client running, the rankings never really stabilise like they do in 1on1, bots will keep changing positions forever... -- ABC

Exactly like has been suggested, my explanation to Tron outscoring SandboxDT is the gun. This FloodHT has the same problem - it roughly ties Tron against a more varied group at best, and certainly doesn't perform as well against the sample bots (not that I've tested with everyone, but watching Shadow win 100 rounds out of 100 against all the sample bots has always impressed me - my best with Coriantumr was in the neighborhood of 90/100 and Shiz doesn't have the gun to do much better than 65-70).

It might be appropriate to bring up Paul Evans's observation on the importance of targeting (which applies to melee like it does in one-on-one) - if your gun is better than your movement, your LRP looks like Tron's. If your movement is better than your gun, it looks more like HawkOnFire's (you'll just have to trust me for now, since we can't see the LRPs ;-)).

What this really might mean is what has been suggested elsewhere - the proportion of very good melee bots in the RR@H is still low enough that a form of targeting that works best against the best isn't as effective in the rankings. This wouldn't be the case in the old ER format (so much), since the robot will advance if it does better against other robots of similar ranking. -- Kawigi

What gun is v0.9 using, could you already ramp up SplitTargeting? -- GrubbmGait

Nope, just a segmented GF gun. -- Kawigi

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