Talk:Main Page

For old discussion, see Archived talk:Main Page 20110903.

Time-based Rumble Types Proposal

The conversation is about the possibility of adding new rumble types in Robocode that are limited by time per tick instead of code size. Some participants suggest that this would encourage bots to make more time tradeoff decisions and could potentially lead to more diverse strategies. However, there are concerns about how to categorize these bots and the difficulty of accurately measuring time per tick. Some suggest using a fixed tick time competition, while others point out that the Robocode engine's control over CPU time is not precise enough for this task. There is also mention of the possibility of using Java bytecode instrumentation to assign fixed costs to different Java bytecode instructions, but this is seen as too complicated to implement.

-- ChatGPT

I don't think code size is a good limiter for different rumble types, because it forces people to do all sorts of tricks which results in very difficult to understand code. In addition, code size is so small compared to memory now that it hardly seems relevant in most cases. What if new rumble types were added where time per tick is the limiting factor: QuickRumble, with half the time, FastRumble 1/4, HyperRumble 1/8, SlowRumble 2x, etc. (Names are arbitrary) This would mean bots in faster rumbles would have to make more time tradeoff decisions, (less precise prediction? more approximate GFs?), and perhaps bots in slower rumbles could find a use for non-KNN classification schemes that required more time. What do you think?

Tick time size sound like a fantastic idea, I think robocode has some built in constants which potentially can be tweaked for time based rumbles.

But, I would still keep size based categories. I personally amazed how much can be squeezed into small code. It is indeed unreadable, but they set a bar and send a strong hint to me when those little gizmos level my megabot.

I'm not advocating the destruction of the codesize limited rumbles, just the addition of time limited ones.

The problem is categorizing them. Right now they are automatically sorted into the categories, since codesize is a compile time constant. However time limiting is a run time value. You would have to run a number of battles to place a robot. Even then you need to decide if something that is under the certain limit 99.9% of the time but over 0.1% of the time should be in which category, and so forth.

Well, we can make a time tick fixed competitions. Every one participate but bots which designed with time constrains in mind will sort to the top by themselves.

I think it is analogous to current size based system: nano bots participate in mega bots competitions and have good chances, but it is not true in reverse. Though here we can participant selection in advance.

So all we need is good tick measure, which is not that easy with current CPU which tend to throttle and boost their performance.

In my model, you could submit any bot to any category, but it would skip turns if it took too long for that category. So time limits implemented the same way they are now, but with different categories.

The problem I have with this idea, is that the Robocode engine's control over CPU time is far too approximate for that task.

The nature of such a league is to encourage people to push the limit of the alotted CPU time, however one can expect the calibration of CPU time to be off by wide margins between different computers, or even different runs on the same computer.

If one wants to have a league where the CPU time is a primary design constraint for bots, we need an engine with more precise management of this, such as by using Java bytecode instrumentation to assign fixed costs to different Java bytecode instructions... but that... that gets very complicated to implement.

I agree that would be the best way, and also very expensive to implement. If the VM itself tracked it, that would be another story, but as far as I know, it doesn't.

what would happen if the VM itself tracked it

When I look at discussion threads, I do not see anymore separate post highlighting? The whole discussion with action links now looks like one a single continuous stream.

Does anyone else experience it?

I experienced the same bug two weeks ago. But it seems fixed for me now, even though I didn't do anything.

Perhaps it's an intermittent issue?

The issue seems to be with the js resources which fails to load

I have a theory about the root cause of the problem, but I need more data to confirm.

Can someone experiencing this issue please open the browser console (F12 -> Console tab), and post the contents of it? Also, which browser are you using?

If I my idea is right, you should see Uncaught ReferenceError: jQuery is not defined.

Same here. That's why I suspect the cause is js resources. However this issue seems to happen some time, and disappear some time. Maybe browser caches that once it successfully loads.

I see something else in Firefox:

SyntaxError: illegal character load.php:1:190

When I go to

view-source:http://robowiki.net/w/load.php?debug=false&lang=en&modules=jquery%2Cmediawiki&only=scripts&skin=monobook&version=20140108T004349Z

After character 190 it is a bunch of strange characters. I guess something was corrupted on the database?

Yeah, it looks like jQuery is missing a byte somewhere.

It seems there are two separate problems then.

Everyone who sees Uncaught SyntaxError: Invalid or unexpected token is:

• Using Monobook (the default skin), either by choice or by not being logged in.
• Experiencing this problem continuously.
• The root cause is that this script, which should contain jQuery and MediaWiki frontend code, has parts of it overwritten with 155648 0x00 bytes.
• Because that script does not parse, the loading process is broken.
• This probably requires a server-side fix.
• People seeing this: Skilgannon

Meanwhile, everyone who sees Uncaught ReferenceError: jQuery is not defined is:

• Using the Vector skin.
• Using Chrome.
• Experiencing this problem intermittently.
• For the Vector skin, this script, which contains jQuery and MediaWiki frontend code, it perfectly fine.
• However, that script is loaded by this script through document.write() of a <script> tag.
• Chrome is known to block the use of document.write() to load scripts on slow Internet connections.
• Thus, since the script that contains and exposes jQuery is not loaded, other code that depends on it errors with Uncaught ReferenceError: jQuery is not defined.
• Possible fix: Go to chrome://flags, set "Block scripts loaded via document.write" to "Disabled", and restart your browser.
• People experiencing this: Xor and past me

The channel from the old wiki is decidedly dead. Is there a new one? I can't find one on any network.

If not, I'm on FreeNode.net/#robocode, I can transfer ownership of the channel to an appropriate veteran if one joins it.

Whilst the wiki discussion thing is good for serious robocode questions and things which require the persistency of a wiki, I think having a place to chill out and talk robocode more casually might be nice. Especially for things like bouncing ideas around and getting more instant feedback on things.

What are other robocoders thoughts/opinions?

I think part of me is still struggling to associate a wiki with quick responses... :P

ok, maybe I can't transfer ownership (it's already owned by someone?) but I can idle in there quite happily until someone else pops along :)

according to freenode's FAQ, the channel #robocode is under silly regulations, and we should use ##robocode instead, unless we can complete a "group registration" in order to secure #robocode (failing being able to contact Chase-san, who is the current "founder" of #robocode).

The upshot of this is that ##robocode is the channel I will be idling in (as well as #robocode, just in case anybody shows up there), and my recommended channel to join (unless you know who Chase-san is, or can navigate around freenode's bureaucracy)

What about me?

The reason I don't keep up the robocode IRC is that no one really ever went in there.

I used to love to hang around in IRC channels. But these days, I don't really have a good time to do it. I can't do it at work, and at home the only time I spend on my computer anymore is when I'm actually working on my robot. The rest of the time, I'm doing family activities, chores, doing home improvement projects, etc. I suppose I could fire it up during the periods when I sneak off to the bedroom to get in some Robocoding time. That would be mostly between 10pm and 1am central time, but not every day.

Sorry, Chase-san, I presumed because the IRC channel hadn't been visited in ages you might be a retiree from robocode.

If we can fire up the channel again, that would be good for people who enjoy it. Since Chase-san clearly does still exist, I'll drop the ##robocode and just idle in #robocode in that case. If anybody wants to join me, they can feel free, if not, that's cool also. I don't lose anything by idling in there (I'm already idling in ##java) so it's no biggy to add another chan. :)

I'll try to pop in from time to time.

While we are in the process of transferring to new littlerumble accepted clients, it make sense to revive irc channel for faster communication.

I am hanging on FreeNode.net/#robocode and will be happy to talk to you all.

I'm idling on both ##robocode and #robocode, ##robocode does not have an owner and i did not register it.

Been on a very, very long hiatus from Robocode. Got really pissed off that I lost my excellent robot, Thor, and just abandoned everything.

I am the channel owner of FreeNode.net/#robocode and I'll be there over the next few days while I try (probably in vain) to recreate my fancy targeting algorithm.

The old RoboWiki is offline. Accessing it produces 500 Internal Error.

Is anyone else seeing this problem? Does this happen often? Does anyone need to be contacted?

Never mind.