Anti-Surfer Challenge/Pre-Chat

From Robowiki
< Anti-Surfer Challenge
Revision as of 18:43, 10 July 2009 by Voidious (talk | contribs) (→‎Pre-Chat: thoughts / responses to Skilgannon)
Jump to navigation Jump to search

Pre-Chat

While it's not that useful for increasing RoboRumble performance, a lot of us enjoy trying to improve our Anti-Surfer Targeting. It's a big part of claiming the PL throne. We have surfers in the TC2K6 and TC2K7, but this would be an opportunity to update and expand the test bed. My initial thoughts:

  • I actually think the TC2K7 surfers are all good candidates. I'd definitely vote to keep Shadow (classic, awesome DC-surfer) and CassiusClay (classic, awesome VCS-surfer). Hydra (related to WaveSerpent) is still the top DC surfer.
  • In the present RoboRumble, 6 of the top 10 and 11-12 of the top 20 (not sure about RougeDC) are using DC surfing, so we should have more of those.
  • How many reference bots? 10? 12? 15? I say start at 10 and if there are specific bots we really want, consider increasing it.
  • Classic TC rules OK?
    • 35 rounds or 500 rounds? I like 500, myself, but 35 seems logical.

We could nominate, vote, then maybe discuss and have follow-up votes for tweaking the final set, to make sure we get the desired mix.

Anyone else interested? =)

--Voidious 15:16, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

I prefer 35 rounds. 10 bots should be enough. Surfers are slow, I don't want to let my computer run for 3 days to run 15 seasons of this challenge =) We should have 5 DC surfer and 5 VCS surfer. It would be good if we can have the not-yet-exist mixed surfer. I think we can ask Skilgannon to add the DC to DrussGT. I think we should have Engineer as a NN surfer too. » Nat | Talk » 15:30, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Engineer is interesting, but it's not open source, and I'm not sure it would be a good benchmark because it's so unique. I'd personally rather have the real DrussGT than a DC version, but Wintermute seems a fine candidate. While I generally aim for fast-executing reference bots, in this case I'd vote for just getting the right reference bots and accepting the CPU cost. Benchmarking Anti-Surfer Targeting takes time, that's life. =) --Voidious 15:46, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
I nominate the both VCS and DC DrussGT, not just DC DrussGT, it should yield in an interesting yet slow wave surfing movement that should not be able to pair with any guns =) Actually I'm acceptable with the current-generation wave surfer, I just don't want to have 10 reference robots that are as slow as Cigaret. » Nat | Talk » 17:25, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

As a testbed I propose:

  • DC:
    • YersiniaPestis (very hard to hit, has multiple weighting schemes, flattener, also quite slow, I'm not sure about movement alone though)
    • Shadow (hard to hit, has flattener, runs fast)
    • Hydra (possibly vulnerable to antisurfer guns?)
    • Horizon or RougeDC (intermediate DC implementation)
    • CunobelinDC (very simple DC implementation)
  • VCS:

Perhaps cull out Hydra and Garm, but I think that covers things fairly well. Feedback? --Skilgannon 16:38, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

I prefer Horizon over RougeDC if we have Garm, otherwise I'd prefer RougeDC since I think we need at least one wave surfer with precise-intersection, though I'm not sure if both Garm and RoougeDC has it in movement. But perhaps we can have Wintermute instead of Garm, unless we don't want to have 3 robots from Skilgannon. But I myself think Phoenix is slower than Dookious, but I only test with the original version, not the movement only. I wonder if we can have a KDTree version of CunobelinDC? I think at least it will be faster, but I'm not sure if it will effect the score. » Nat | Talk » 17:25, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) Most of those bots I agree with 100%, though I still say we should vote in the end. Some responses:

  • I like RougeDC over Horizon because it's so much stronger in PL.
  • I always thought Komarious would be a perfect reference bot, but at this point I think she's just too weak. I like CunobelinDC since it's strong and probably a super-fast DC surfer, but my vote would be for that to be the weakest reference bot. Dooki's Main Gun way outperforms his Anti-Surfer Gun against Komarious.
  • I know Dookious is slow, and in the past I've always agreed that he therefore shouldn't be a reference bot. This time I'm not sure. The PL is dominated by 4-5 bots and he's one of them. I'll have to benchmark the speed, but I thought it was in the same ballpark as Shadow (~half as fast as CC).
  • We'd need a movement-only Phoenix, but I think David would provide that. (I may even have one already, I'll check.)
  • Diamond could also be worth considering, he's actually ahead of Hydra in PL (if barely =)).
  • Looks like Garm is not open source, dang. Maybe PulsarMax? I think he can do movement-only from the .properties file, we could repackage a TC version.
  • I personally think we should really push for the strongest bots possible in this. CPU-taxing or not, those are the movements you need to hit to have a strong Anti-Surfer gun. I'd love to have 9 of the strongest possible movements, then CunobelinDC as the only intermediate one. Just my 2 cents on that.

--Voidious 17:43, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://robowiki.net/w/index.php?title=Anti-Surfer_Challenge/Pre-Chat&oldid=8941"