Storing Data

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Storing Data

Do you store all your data between matches for each robot you encounter? Or do you start with a fresh tree each time? Store a subset of the data that will give you a good start? I assume storing the full data set will be too large to be able to fit it in the bots data directory? But it would be good to store some of your tree so that you don't have to re-learn every time? I couldn't see details on how many rounds in a row the Roborumble ran for each bot match. Is it enough that you have time to populate the tree with useful data?

Wolfman13:42, 18 March 2013

I don't save data between battles. It's probably worth a few RR points but so inconsistent based on how your battles get distributed, I just avoid the headache.

Voidious14:39, 18 March 2013

Does the robocode security disable network access? I had an idea of storing data in a cloud server and then loading that data when a robot loads, meaning your robot could store data for all roborumble results and share it between distributed runs! ;) But I'm guessing thats not possible?

Its just interesting because my gun definitely gets better the larger the KD-Tree becomes. Its worth a good few percent between 100 rounds and 500 rounds of data for instance. I guess I'll have to tune it for 35 rounds :(

Wolfman14:43, 18 March 2013

Yep, network access is disabled. Sharing saved data across clients has always seemed like a potentially cool RoboRumble feature, but personally I'm more in the "get rid of all saved data" camp. :-) It's helpful to log exceptions for debugging, though.

Voidious14:46, 18 March 2013

Ok fair enough. So what is the number of rounds that the rumble runs each match? Is it 35 like the latest targeting challenges?

Wolfman14:51, 18 March 2013

Yep, 35.

Voidious14:56, 18 March 2013

The roborumble (800X600) and meleerumble (1000X1000) are 35 rounds, the teamrumble (1200X1200) is 10 rounds, and the twinduelrumble (800X800) is 75 rounds (with all forms of data-saving between matches banned).

Sheldor15:55, 18 March 2013

And not trying to discourage you from saving data - if it's interesting to you and there's points to be had, go for it!

What I like about not having it is that it makes for a more clearly defined problem, and you don't run the risk of real improvement getting hidden by fluctuations in the performance of your data saving.

Voidious15:39, 18 March 2013

I guess what is interesting to me is the identification of patterns in large data sets that saving would give you. Whereas not saving data becomes either how do I gather data fast enough to be useful or how do I perform well with small data sets. For instance I would assume that wave surfers would perform better after more rounds.

Do you pre-populate any of your data at the start of a match even if you don't save data about specific robots?

Wolfman16:21, 18 March 2013

I have two things that are a form of pre-populated data:

  • In surfing, I surf as if there's one hit at GF=0 until I have any data.
  • In the gun, I have this silly RetroGirl/Gun that I use for the early ticks of round 1 before my real gun has data. (The real gun quickly outperforms it with even a tiny amount of data.)
Voidious16:28, 18 March 2013

Yup I think I may have to investigate switching guns depending on the amount of data in my dataset to improve performance in early rounds (or in round 1). At the moment I only am using a DC gun.

Wolfman18:01, 18 March 2013

What other kind of gun would you be using?

Sheldor19:01, 18 March 2013

I dont know, but I have a hunch that a preloaded GF simple segmented GF gun may be more accurate for the first few shots compared to an almost-empty DC gun *shrug*. My gun at the moment has a noticeable increase in accuracy between 35 rounds to 100. :/

Are there any tricks to make a DC gun better in the first few rounds that I am missing?

Wolfman20:14, 18 March 2013

Pre-loading of any sort I'll give you, but I consider fast learning one of the strengths of DC over VCS. As you get more data, it automatically tightens its bounds and uses more relevant data. To achieve the same with VCS you need to layer buffers of different complexities or dynamically segment.

Circular targeting or RetroGirl/Gun certainly outperform a DC gun with no data, and I am crazy enough to have such a gun just for that purpose... But from what I recall, it's like 2-5 data points (like 50 ticks into round 1) where my DC gun starts outperforming them.

Voidious20:22, 18 March 2013

I would say, don't worry about the first round so much. I don't know much about megas, but I don't think that missing two shots due to a lack of data would do any noticeable damage to your score.

Sheldor22:51, 18 March 2013

Probably true it's something to save for later, but there's good reason to put extra emphasis on those early ticks/rounds. There are a lot of mid-range bots that have a chance at taking a round from (e.g.) Diamond early on, even if Diamond will reliably crush them every round after round 5. That 1 round is big in percent score. Every shot counts! :-)

Voidious23:07, 18 March 2013

Between versions 1.7.2 and 1.7.4, Diamond gained .15% APS, 4.2 Glicko, 1 PL, and .06% Survival.

Sheldor23:32, 18 March 2013

<Squinting Fry> Can't tell if agreeing or disagreeing with me... :-)

Totally agree that improving the accuracy of the first few shots is only a tiny (but measurable) improvement to Diamond's already state of the art gun. That it's measurable only lends credence to the notion that Wolfman is right to put some emphasis on performance in the first few rounds (not necessarily ticks) in his still early in development gun.

Voidious23:51, 18 March 2013

You added a very powerful pre-loaded gun to an extremely powerful learning gun, and you got an improvement of .15% APS. That's significant when you're grappling for the throne, but I don't really think that it's worth Wolfman's time.

If I were you, Wolfman, I would focus on making a gun that works extremely well in the last 34 rounds, before worrying about squeezing every last point out of the first.

Sheldor01:01, 19 March 2013