View source for Talk:LiteRumble

Hi mate. I just wanted to thank you for all the effort you put in keeping LiteRumble up and running - it is very much appreciated by me. Awesome job. Of course thanks too Voidious, Sheldor and all the others who spend her time to keep RoboCode alive. Right now I have not much time to help out - I barely could write a couple of bot code even on easter weekend :( . But let me know if I could drop some money or something else to show my respect for your work.

take care

Thanks. At some point I might ask for some paypal donations to cover costs, but not yet =)

Yeah man, LiteRumble is great! It's pretty remarkable Darkcanuck's server could just disappear one day and we have a viable alternative, with rankings already up to date, to switch to on the spot. And you've been lightning quick in adding polish and fixing stuff since it became the canonical rumble server. Great work, and I too am ready to pitch in for costs whenever you say.

Wompi,
Thanks for the mention. Though I doubt that my contributions to the RoboWiki have done much for Robocode itself.

I look forward to seeing how Kowari turns out.

---

Skilgannon,
Thanks for saving the RoboRumble. :)
Great job!

---

Voidious,
I agree. The LiteRumble's awesome!

I noticed pairings between 2 competitors are being scored differently. A vs B score is different than B vs A score.

LiteRumble could stabilize twice as fast if a given battle upload is updated for both competitors involved.

Certainly looks that way. At this moment, XanderCat 12.6 has run against all other opponents, but if I go look at some of the opponents who do not have full pairings, ones that XanderCat 12.6 has run against, XanderCat 12.6 doesn't show up.

Also, a number of values are coming up 0. Will those eventually update when pairings complete, or are not all scores currently tallied (either intentionally or due to a bug)? I know there was talk of dropping ANPP, so maybe that is 0 on purpose, but Vote for XanderCat 12.6 also comes up 0, even though XanderCat 12.6 shows up against PolishedRuby, who XanderCat gets top score against.

Those complex rankings are coming up 0 because they didn't have some battles run against them after the batch rankings was run, and got evicted from cache before their new data was written to disk. I think I'll do a disk dump at the end of each batch processing job, see if that sorts this out.

A lot of these problems are showing up because I put a bit too much 'eventually' into the 'eventually consistent' model.

Some of the complex rankings are updated in batch at intervals.

They are both updated at the same time, but for a long time I had very aggressive caching on to keep within the free tier. Because App Engine Memcache can be cleared without warning, this meant that often one bot would lose a battle before it could be written to disk, but not the other. Ironically, this is one of those situations where a higher client load on the server means that less data gets lost, since the bot was more likely to hit the 'write threshold' before being evicted from the cache. Now that I have more writes to play with, I've lowered the write caching thresholds a lot, and we should eventually see everything settling down.

Is the cache independent for each rumble? Or one big cache for everything?

One big cache for everything. I used to have a queue for each rumble that would fill up, and each time a bot had over X battles it would be written to the database. Of course, when the nanorumble only gets 1/10th or less the battles of the main rumble, the bots in it are more likely to be evicted, resulting in incomplete and asymmetric pairings. So I've just rewritten that section to keep just two queues (only split between 1v1 and melee), and bots are written as a batch as soon as the queue is a certain size. That way, even bots getting less battles will still be written because they are all pushing each other through, so it should stabilize better. Unfortunately I couldn't do this before because I was too limited with writes.

What is the queue size?

30. Bots with more than 1 unsaved pairing only count once, though.

Is the queue size per competitor instead of per pairing then?

I keep a dictionary of {bot.Name:unsavedBattles} and once there are more than 30 entries it gets written.

Let me explain that better: Each time a pairing is uploaded, the two bots are added to the dictionary with unsavedBattles of 1. If they already existed in the dictionary, their unsavedBattles count is incremented. Once the dictionary size is bigger than 30 (size = number of entries, not sum of unsavedBattles), all bots listed in the dictionary are written to database.

Dictionary size reaches 30 when at least 30 different bots had pairings uploaded.

I configured my clients to run/upload 30 battles per iteration. With meleerumble still having 3 battles per iteration. If all battles have at least one different participant, the server flushes the queue at least once per iteration, with higher chance of it happening exactly after the last upload leaving an empty queue.

It is an attempt to minimize the amount of evicted battles.

I miss the ELO rating column in the pairings page. When you viewed all pairings a bot has, ELO rating column allowed you to sort all pairings by opponent's strength.

There is no column which allows you to do that anymore. A sortable column with APS rank or league APS would be nice.

Interesting, that was never something I used. I'll look into it.

ERROR WRITING DATA!! QUOTA REACHED?

Oh no! I guess I'll stop my GigaRumble client. =) I've only been one running one slow client on my laptop, and with 30 slow bots it's pretty low volume - I think ~20 minutes per 25-battle iteration, at least.

Don't worry, I don't think it's you. I have 8 clients running at the moment in my lab, and it seems that they suddenly started producing a whole lot more battles over the last few hours (I'm not sure why). It's quite interesting, on the requests-per-second graph I can see when the latest Diamond was released quite clearly =) Check it out:

Again, I have no idea why that sudden burst of data came in. Considering it's about triple what I normally get, it would correspond with ~24 clients running regular rumble battles. Very strange. And no wonder I'm out of quota...

Hmm. If you have battles per bot 2000, and then they stopped running DrussGT / Diamond battles, I could easily see the battle rate tripling when switching to minibots or random battles.

It shouldn't switch to random battles though, because I've got priority battles going the whole time and the 1.7.3.2+ clients ignore the BATTLESPERBOT if there are priority battles waiting. I think I've identified a bug in the priority battle selection algorithm though, it is giving higher priority to pairings with more battles, rather than less (although that only starts happening once all the pairings are complete, at least).

Also, it hasn't been waiting on Diamond and DrussGT to fill out their battles like Darkcanuck's rumble, because until just now *everybody* was below 2k battles.

Ruh roh, my client's hitting this again.

OK. mrm.MightyMoose .2 vs logiblocs.Fire 1.0 received in 365ms
ERROR WRITING DATA!! QUOTA REACHED?

That makes no sense, it is well below hitting anything. There was also an issue with priority battles not having any options because everybody had full pairings, which was some errors, as well as malformed requests which were coming from my university connection, I think they had something to do with the SEACOM cable currently being down.

I've added some logging, so next time it happens I can see exactly what the problem is.

OK, fixed. It was having trouble with a mixture between numpy floats and native Python floats when writing them to the database.

Ah, so this was just some other error with the same message? That's a relief. :-) Turned my clients back on.

Try adding flags to the tables, it makes a tremendous difference.

I don't want to deal with the admin of uploading flags for new entrants. If I do add flags I want it to be able to be changed without any admin access.

A long time ago someone proposed some kind of automatic flag maintenance, much like how the participants list is maintained today. People add their flags in the Country Flags page and the server adapts.

On the note of possibly making this the default server, here is my unfinished flags pack. Now I say unfinished because I am using ISO 3166-1 alpha-3 for the country codes, but I don't have a flag for every country code. I was working on it. I have about 1/5th of them, but I lost interest when people really stopped mentioning the light rumble.

Thanks! I've been thinking about this for a long time. I've got a code-freeze for my MSc coming up at the end of the month, so once that hits I'll see if I can add some flags to the LiteRumble.

Flags are up!

Looks great!

I did notice one thing, though... Maybe make the blank flag transparent instead of white? It looks odd on the grey rows.

Done. You'll have to do a CTRL-SHIFT-R reload though, to clear the cache.

A feature: you can sort by flag type, which I think is something no rumble has had before!

It would be interesting to have a country leaderboard using aggregated score of bots from each country :)

Cool!

It was a good idea to change BLANK to NONE. Good job. :)

Currently the rumble uses ISO 3166-1 alpha-3 for the country codes. If anyone wants a flag that doesn't exist, i'll make up the flag. Until then, I suspect the current subset to be sufficient.

Currently supported are ABW, AFG, AGO, AIA, ALA, ALB, AND, ARE, ARG, ARM, ASM, ATA, ATF, ATG, AUS, AUT, AZE, BDI, BES, BRA, CAN, CHE, CZE, DEU, ESP, FIN, FRA, GBR, HUN, IRL, ITA, JPN, KOR, LTU, NLD, NOR, POL, PRT, RUS, SGP, SRB, SWE, THA, USA, VEN, and ZAF. Unless Skilgannon added more.

I actually didn't notice the BLANK until I had a good portion of the code up, then I just decided to stick with what I had :-p I added CHN, NZL and SVK.

I've also set out the RoboRumble/Country_Flags so that it makes it all pretty clear. I have a cronjob which parses the page once every 2 hours.

And thanks for all those flags BTW, saved me a ton of work!

You're welcome.

Oh on that note. The css style:

img {
    width: 30px;
    height: 18px;
}

Should help prevent any strange image sizing bugs.

I'm pretty hopeless with css, if you could provide that as an entire code snippet with example <img> tag and everything I'd be happy to integrate. Is there any chance of it going wrong if I keep all the images 30x18 though?

Gah, liquid threads ate my response again.

Anyway that is a complete CSS code snippet. It is just saying all images (rather all <img> tags) should be displayed at 30x18. If you just leave this bit of code out, the <img> may display at any browser specific size while loading (before the browser can load the image and see how big it is). I know some of them default to things like 100x100 while loading. Which may make the page look... weird while loading.

This was more of a problem when each package had a separate flag (and thus we had to load more images, which took longer), but it is still a valid problem.

So I just stick this in my styles.css file and everything sorts itself out?

Pretty much.

Unless you add more images which are not flags. That css snippet affects all images on the page.

Yeah, I said "all images" and "all <img> tags".

Ok, I have a simple API up. Just add &api=True to any Rankings or BotDetails page and it will return in nice easy-to-parse JSON-ish format. I say JSON-ish because real JSON puts double-quotes around everything, whereas I'm lazy and don't feel like doing a ton of double-quote escaping, and besides, we don't have commas or colons in our data so there isn't any risk.

If you don't want the entire pairings detail from the BotDetails, add &limit=0 to the page and it will leave them out.

Some usage examples:

http://literumble.appspot.com/Rankings?game=nanorumble&api=True

http://literumble.appspot.com/BotDetails?game=nanorumble&name=sheldor.jk.Yatagan%201.0.5&api=True

http://literumble.appspot.com/BotDetails?game=nanorumble&name=sheldor.jk.Yatagan%201.0.5&api=True&limit=0

Of course, I'd rather you call Rankings once than call BotDetails with &limit=0 985 times, because although it doesn't generate the JSON, it still has to pull all the data in, which adds up for lots of requests. I'd ask that if you are getting more than 3, rather use the Rankings.

If there's anything else you'd like me to add to the API just ask, if it's already saved in my data it should be easy to whip something up to return it.

Sweet! I'll take a look at updating RR API clients in the next couple days. (That's @roborumble on Twitter, Category:Archived RoboRumble Rankings, RumbleStats, and BedMaker.)

I'll let you know how it goes or if I hit any snags. Hopefully the JSON libs I use don't mind JSON-ish. ;)

Well, the Perl JSON library is indeed unhappy about the lack of quoting, but I think I've got it covered:

$content =~ s/([\{,]\s*)([^:\{,]*):/$1\"$2\":/g;
$content =~ s/:([^\[][^,\}]*)([,\}]*)/:\"$1\"$2/g;

=)

Cool, got it working with archived rankings, eg: RumbleArchives:RoboRumble 20130324. This checks back hourly when rumbles don't have complete pairings, but that may be forever without priority battles so I'll kill it in a couple days. =)

Only useful thing that I found missing so far is that Darkcanuck's results came back sorted and had a "rank" field. Seems like you have logic for sorting in there so it'd be nice if you could honor the "order" param like you do for the normal pages, but not a big deal (/shamefully hides his bubble sort). The quote thing wasn't a huge deal for me but that might also screw some people up since I imagine most clients use a JSON parser instead of doing it manually.

And @roborumble, yay: [1]

I'll look at RumbleStats and BedMaker tomorrow. Will be nice that other people can actually use BedMaker now. =) If anyone's interested, I had to make one more tweak to my regex to properly quote the &limit=0 format:

$content =~ s/([\{,]\s*)([^:\{,]*):/$1\"$2\":/g;
$content =~ s/:([^\[][^,\}\n]*)([,\}]*)/:\"$1\"$2/g;

OK, you've convinced me, I've added the quotes :-p I've also added "rank" to both Rankings and BotDetails, and the sort works too.

Nice, thanks! I turned off my quoting regex this morning and it parsed fine.

I didn't think adding qoutes would be that hard if you don't have to escape anything.

I would like a query which returns the full pairing matrix, with scores from all pairings. Number of battles from all pairings would also de nice.

Probably the costliest query anyone could ask.

Unfortunately, that would take more memory than I have available in a frontend, and frontends only give me 10 seconds to respond or the process gets killed. Besides, all I'd be doing in the background is doing a Rankings query to get all N of the bot names, then N x BotDetails queries to get all of the pairwise data, so it's nothing that you wouldn't be able to do just as effectively with the tools you already have.

If you do something like this, I'd ask that you put a half-second delay between all of the BotDetails queries just to leave spare capacity for client uploading.

But I agree, it would be quite interesting to see what trends etc could be found in the data.

It would be used mostly to try different ranking systems over the scores, and to build custom priority battles systems.

For building batch rankings systems I can understand, but it would take too long to do priority battles, which need to be run much more regularly.

Hmm, getting an error from API calls for Rankings, but not from the normal pages: [1]

Ah, thanks. Flags are up now, and the API returns the flag code as well, which is how that error crept in (index array out of bounds, now that I have another element).

Cool, I'll get the flags into the archived rankings next time. Thx for the quick fix.

I know this is about as low priority as it gets, but... The always opening a new tab when I select a rumble annoys me. =) I'm pretty conscious of ctrl or shift clicks if I want a new window or tab, so I'd rather just keep control of that myself.

I'm also starting to get annoyed by it, I thought it might improve useability not having to click 'back' the whole time. It is now gone.

Please switch clients over to 1.8.1.0 to take advantage of priority battles for mini, micro and nano as well as fix the skipped turns issues.

1.7.4.2 will be disabled in the next few days.

I was playing around with the backend and restarted it a few times, which chowed my new (increased) daily quota pretty much instantly. So just hang in there for another hour and a half and it will be back to normal, I promise.

Aaaand it's back.

Guys, if anybody has some spare CPU-power lying around, could you point it at the 1v1 and melee rumbles? It seems that I was getting bad stability in the mini/micro/nano rumbles, and I've just fixed that, but we have a bunch of pairings which need to be filled in. I also want to see how it handles a higher load, so I know whether it is worth upgrading to paid. Thanks!

Sure, I'll go from 1 to 4 in a couple hours. ;)

Seems to handle my four clients ok so far, running mostly/all nano battles too.

Edit: Oops, not all nano battles. But they're running pretty fast. :-)

Ok, looks like we managed to overload it. ;)

That's from hitting the Read quota. That hasn't happened before, it might have something to do with me clearing the memcache so that I could enable priority battles for mini/micro/nano. The reset is in an hour, let's see what happens ;-)

Are there priority battles happening for the lower weight classes? Even Mini 1v1 mostly doesn't have full pairings. Was it just way behind or is it not working correctly?

The client doesn't accept priority battles from the lower weight classes. I've filed a bug and Fnl has fixed it, so as soon as 1.8.1 is released we'll be switching to that.

https://sourceforge.net/p/robocode/bugs/355/

I've made the plunge, LiteRumble is now on the paid tier. So, open the taps and let's see what this puppy can do!

Sweet! Let me know if there's somewhere (eg PayPal) I can drop a donation. :-)

Also it's probably time we update a bunch of wiki pages to note the LiteRumble as the main rumble server.

I created a fresh "superpack" pointing at Skilgannon's rumble server: LiteRumble 1.7.4.2 superpack (31.5 MB) ... We can put this somewhere more prominent if we want to make the transition more official.

I fixed the participant list links to darkcanuck.net to point to Rednaxela's archive instead and downloaded most bots for all the rumbles in the above zip. There are still some stragglers with broken links that we should fix on the participants pages. I also set all the configs to ITERATE=NOT and updated the shell scripts to loop, which is my preferred setup. Just change your name at the top of roborumble/*.txt before running.

I don't know how many clients Skilgannon's server can handle - last I heard it was just a few. For now I'm just running 1 client for General 1v1.

Thanks. My client is in my university lab and I need the processing power during the day for the next few months at least, so feel free to run as many as you like. It should also have a more graceful quota-exceeded behaviour than it used to, but we'll actually have to hit that before I can be sure.

If you remove the CPU constant from the robocode.properties file, won't it automatically recalculate it? If so, might be a good idea to remove the CPU contant from the robocode.properties file in the superpack. Otherwise, anyone who runs the superpack without thinking about updating the CPU constant will be running with the CPU constant packaged in the superpack.

Ah, good call. I'm not sure it works that way but I'll test it. I'll also shore up the missing bots.

Alternatively what about just outright removing robocode.properties? That's what I always did when I made superpacks.

I gotta say, I love the Vote ranking. Gives you a completely different perspective on the rumble.

Yeah, I really like it as well. I'm thinking of doing away with (A)NPP though, it seems a bit redundant, and it uses tons of memory to calculate.

I have no problem with that. But I think we should get some other opinions on it.

ANPP is actually the one I love =), but I'm fine with dropping it if you want. I find it pretty meaningful in the GigaRumble.

Hmm. My main concern with it is that it requires me to do a full nxn grid of scores, which is taking up a full GB of RAM on the backend, and causing soft-kills. If I could somehow implement it as an incremental score, which is updated along with APS, I wouldn't mind it so much.

At least with the KNN-PBI I only need sqrt(rumblesize) in memory at once.

Pretty sure you could do it without nxn grid. You could do min/max for each bot just loading one row (n) at a time. Then ANPP vs each bot the same way. Then each bot's avg with another pass one row at a time. Unless even that process requires nxn with the code/data model. I certainly don't see anyway to do it drastically quicker, like on par with APS.

It's still probably the most CPU intensive and least useful of the rankings, so I totally agree it's a good candidate for the axe.

I think incrementally updated ANPP could actually be very fast most of the time if you had a table to cache the highest and lowest scores against each bot. Most of the time, the bot holding the highest/lowest score against another won't change, so those times only the bot with the newly submitted score would be affected. It could also be made less resource intensive by not including a bot in ANPP until it's pairings are complete, further reducing how often the min/max score against it changes. If the highest/lowest score changes, it affects the resulting ANPP score of all other robots, but that update could be done with a low memory footprint I'd think.

Yeah, I was trying to think that through... Agree that obviously min/max change is fairly rare and that's a fast case if it doesn't change. If min/max does change, you need to recalculate everyone's ANPP vs that bot. Then you need to update everyone's overall ANPP, but that doesn't need to be a complete recalculation, just (((overall * numBots) - oldScore + newScore) / numBots).

Is Vote determined by how many opponents a robot gets top score against? I vaguely recall something like that. Kind of interesting to see the shielders near the top when sorted that way.

Yeah, my next comment is that LiteRumble could use some info on what all these crazy rankings are. :-)

Vote is what % of bots you are the best against. (Each opponent "votes" for its worst matchup.)

I like the Vote ranking. It finally gives exploitative bots (like Epeeist) the recognition that they deserve.

I like it too - Diamond is #1. ;) Of course I presume EnergyDome steals quite a bit of score from DrussGT.

Been thinking I'll probably try a LiteRumble instance when I get to creating a BerryBots Rumble. I was wondering if you could say, at a high level, if there's much Robocode-specific about it? Just looking for some general info, I'm happy to tackle the details myself when I get into setting it up.

I know obviously the protocol is whatever the RR client uses, and the scoring is sorta Robocode-centric. But that shouldn't be too hard to adapt if I need to. I guess the next thing that comes to mind is any CodeSize related stuff? I'm starting on the control API stuff soon, which would enable writing a rumble client, and someone posted the first public user-created bot on the forums today (woohoo!), so I might experiment with it soonish.

Thanks!

It doesn't have anything Robocode dependant, and doesn't even know that the roborumble is more related to the mini/micro/nano than, say, the meleerumble. The homepage does a manual categorisation based on whether they are 1v1, teams, melee etc., but that's as far as it goes. You could even create, say, a 'berryrumble' on the same server if you wanted.

Awesome, thanks!

Aw, I saw in the diff you removed the "in case I ever get" line and thought maybe that meant you'd added it. ;) Though I'd probably still be a ways behind you for a while...

I wasn't keeping track of who anything was from, so it would start from scratch =)

I'm thinking of something like "who contributed in the last hour", or something along those lines, just so that it's easy to see if anything needs running.

Is there any way to see individual battle scores in the LiteRumble? I didn't see any way to do that. It is the one thing I would really miss about Darkcanuck's server if we only had LiteRumble in the future. I find individual battle scores to be of great use from time to time (e.g. if you have a score of 62 , it makes a big difference if the individual scores are 61, 63, 62 or 86, 88, 12). And what client gave that score is also of use. It can help identify Robocode version issues. For example, just go look at the history of battles for Krabby2, and it becomes obvious something broke in Krabby2 after Robocode 1.7.3.0+ came into use.

All that aside, if Darkcanuck's server ever goes away, LiteRumble as it is would be far preferable to no rumble at all.

Unfortunately it only keeps the averaged result and the number of battles. If I changed it to keep pairings as well I suspect that each bot entry might exceed 1MB, which would break Google App Engine rules. I've considered the possibility of keeping 'min' and 'max' though, would that satisfy you?

That would be nice. Or maybe some kind of confidence or standard deviation or something. Not a big deal, but I would use it if it were there.

If you persist each battle independently, without associating it with other records (no foreign key constraints), then the only limit is total database size.

It would also increase total database writes, which is my current bottleneck.

Any idea how much load your server can handle now? Just curious... Still thinking about the feasibility of switching to a new rumble server.

If I upgrade to paid it would probably handle as much as Darkcanuck's server. As it is it is mostly limited by number of database writes, probably 4 1v1 clients and 2 melee clients at i5/i7 execution speeds would be the limit. If I/we upgrade I could also tune the caching so that it loses less data.

I'm actually looking at doing a Java implementation just because the number crunching is so much faster. Also now that I've done the Python one it would just be a translation and not an entire rewrite.

Does it mean you have a bug if I have NPP over 100 against some bots? [1] Or are the ranges only recalculated at some interval, so maybe I scored higher than the previous max score against that bot?

Because the different halves of each pairing are stored separately, each might have a slightly different idea of what its score is against each other because one of the scores being dropped from cache before it is written to disk. Now that I'm not trying to complete pairings for Melee and Roborumble I might as well reduce the caching to less dangerous levels. I've also considered fixing this in my batch processing by taking averages, but never got around to it.

does someone has a roborumble.txt for the gigarumble available? Or can someone run the gigarumble, I want to know if I finally leave the the last spot now that I have entered the top-10 in the normal rumble.

Sure, I'll post my config this evening when I'm home (like 3-4 hours from now). I think I'm the only one that was running it. I was partly just experimenting with LiteRumble, but then I really liked GigaRumble. =)

I can run it if someone tells me how to configure roborumble.txt.

I didn´t even know it existed, much less having a bot in it.

Ok, given the skyrocketing level of interest in the GigaRumble ;), I SSH'd home and uploaded my gigarumble.txt: [1]

I've got one (fairly weak) client going now. Also note that you need to use 1.7.4.2 for LiteRumble - Skilgannon has it rejecting all other Robocode versions.

(Also I fixed the wiki, as you may have noticed.)

Also run 2 clients on i7, but do it in last moment and do not ensure, that results loading works

Oh, now I remember why I only had 1 client configured - Skilgannon asked me not to run more than that because he was already close to max load with his LiteRumble clients. Not sure if that is still true. GigaRumble clients are much slower, anyway, so it may not be much of an issue.

Sorry, I can stop them only 8-10 hours later...

Leave them running - I'm not running my other clients so it is fine.

Congrats, GrubbmGait! [1] =)

Thanks! It is a nice jump from #30 to #25. Improvement against all except 2 bots, I feel like Dookious is in reach in the normal rumble. ;-) And thanks for running your client, I have not been home yet.

It is a relatively minor issue. But it is driving me crazy.

I think the page would be better served with at least some minor CSS. Here I have some CSS-1 only. All browsers (except text based ones) implement it exactly the same. If you set cellspacing="1" on the table html, it should look very similar (viusally) to the normal roborumble page.

Replace the bgcolor attribute tags with class="even" or class="odd", depending.

body {
	font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;
}
table {
	background-color: #D3D3D3; /* LightGrey */
}
table th {
	background-color: #EEEEEE;
}
table th a {
	color: black !important; /* !important, this keeps it from having odd colors on visited links */
	text-decoration: none;
}
table td, table th {
	padding: 2px 4px;
}
table th {
	padding-right: 1em;
}
tr.odd {
	background-color: #F8F8F8;
}
tr.even {
	background-color: #FFFFFF; /* White */
}

If you are okay with CSS2, all of the html formatting attribute tags can be hacked out. (Just let me know).

I don't really have time for editing this right now, but if you fork and edit I'm happy to merge your pull request =) The latest code is up: https://bitbucket.org/jkflying/literumble/overview I apologise in advance for my terrible coding style, this was a "learn python and Google AppEngine" project for me. If I was starting from scratch I would have made several changes in the structure and how much was abstracted, but this grew slowly and is very hackish inside.

Cool, thanks. I've merged it in and uploaded. I had to fix a few small bugs - html_header should be structures.html_header, and I needed to add style.css to app.yaml but otherwise perfect. Thanks, and the changes are now live =)

Ahh okay, I have never done python before, so I was just guessing mostly on everything was suppose to go. I know only the basics of how it is 'suppose' to work. That and google. I used google a lot.

Actually there is another bug which is completely my fault. Can't sort compare by APS or Survival since I renamed the columns to be APS (A) and so forth, where it expects A APS.

Also reading your logs you fixed a bit more then that, I tried to fix most the html problems. But since I couldn't really test, I was fixing it blind.

fixed!

It looks much better now. To me anyway.

Although I'm not sure why it needs to be CSS instead of plain HTML. It's not like the HTML adds much code size overhead, and surely it prevents the browser from having to look up all of the cell values each time. bgcolor=F8F8F8 vs class="even" isn't much different, and these pages are completely dynamic so it's not like having an abstracted reference makes it any easier to maintain. If it can be done without CSS I'd prefer it that way.

Almost all the old html formatting tags and attributes have been deprecated since 1999 (I think <b> and <em> were still valid).

You could go and edit your code/html if you wanted to alter the appearance. But it is very likely it is easier to edit a CSS file, even if your html is dynamically generated.

I'll see about forking and editing it.

I've updated the code to reject clients other than 1.7.4.2, as it has quite a few improvements for the client over 1.7.3.[0|2]. These are:

• Timeouts for slow connections, instead of hanging the client
• GZip http compression for retrieving the ratings file
• Always running a bot that isn't in the ratings file if it shows up in the participants list - even if there are priority battles waiting. 1.7.3.0 would always run bots below 2000 battles, but this doesn't help, for instance, in the Gigarumble, while 1.7.3.2 ignored the 2000 battles limit and when no priority battles were available would run random battles until it stumbled on the new entry. This sometimes caused many hours wait before the server became aware that a new bot was available, now it is immediate.

I also fixed a bug in my code which prevented the priority battles from working correctly after all of the pairings were complete, instead just giving random battles, so there should be much faster post-pairings-complete stabilisation, and a much more even distribution of battles from pairing to pairing.

Cool, I updated this morning. Seems like Diamond likes 1.7.4.2 - Diamond 1.8.22 is a pretty minor change that had no impact in the RoboRumble, and I guess it could still come down quite a bit, but +1.25 after 100 battles is a pretty strong start. [1] DrussGT is up from 2.8.2 to 2.8.4 with the client version switch, too. [2] I wonder what's up with that? I guess we should wait a bit before thinking about it too much.