Difference between revisions of "Talk:Dookious"

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(migrating some old wiki discussion (includes points gained/lost from flattener and AntiSurfer gun))
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== From old wiki ==
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Wow, I didn't realize your AntiSurfer gun would be so valuable.  -- [[User:Simonton|Simonton]]
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I'm surprised! I wonder what you would get it you disabled the flattener as well. -- [[User:Skilgannon|Skilgannon]]
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Hang on, just comparing with the last version, and it seems like you broke something. You only got 91% against HOF, and several other questionable results. -- [[User:Skilgannon|Skilgannon]]
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Good catch. What the heck could I have done here... I'll have to check this evening when I get home. -- [[User:Voidious|Voidious]]
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I also just took a peak at [[Dookiton]], and it only got 93% against Barracuda. So it might pay to look a little deeper.. -- [[User:Skilgannon|Skilgannon]]
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(Edit conflict) I'm not going to do much debugging from work, but I did at least diff the source code briefly just now. I haven't the slightest idea what bug I could have introduced - it seemed like a pretty straightforward tweak. Maybe someone is running the rumble with only 256 megs and Dookious was running out of memory? Or it could just be a real bug in the movement... -- [[User:Voidious|Voidious]]
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If it was a memory issue surely it would be much worse against other memory-hoggers, not HOF. Did you entirely disable the anti-surfer, or just modify your VirtualGuns to not choose it for firing? There might be something in there that initializes a variable that your movement depends on (or maybe the rest of your gun depends on), and it throws an exception if it doesn't get initialized. -- [[User:Skilgannon|Skilgannon]]
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* I don't think it's anything like that (and the first thing I did this morning was double check =)). I just removed the gun from the VG array and hardcoded the chooser to pick the main gun. (I have a wrapper around my <nowiki>VirtualGuns.getBestGun</nowiki> to bias the main gun in some cases.) And there's no connection between the gun and movement. -- [[User:Voidious|Voidious]]
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* Ooops ... That would be me. The default memory setting in roborumble.(sh|bat) is 256m. -- [[User:Ebo|Ebo]]
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* Yeah, that should be increased to 512 as the default, I think, as it is in robocode.bat. I still can't say for sure if that's the problem with 1.583, but I sure hope so. =) -- [[User:Voidious|Voidious]]
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* Oh, and about it showing up against HOF. Well, it could be that other memory hoggers also run out of RAM if/when I do, or that it's not standing out that they crush me since I disabled the AntiSurfer gun. I dunno... -- [[User:Voidious|Voidious]]
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Ok, after 1.583b (rerelease) and 1.584, it looks like I get 5-6 points from my AntiSurfer gun and ~2 points (!!!) from my [[CurveFlattening|flattener]]. Two points! It's practically useless. Still only 2 losses ([[Phoenix]] and [[Shadow]]) in both cases, too. I'll have to look at the stats more closely before drawing any more conclusions, but some interesting data there, for sure. -- [[User:Voidious|Voidious]]
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Very interesting, have you tried running the TC/MC for those versions? I would suspect maybe the 35 round results won't change much, but in 500 rounds there must be a difference? -- [[User:ABC|ABC]]
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No, I haven't. I suspect the gun would get crushed against the betters surfers in the TC, not sure about the movement. This was interesting, too... I compared 1.584 (no flattener) to 1.582 and sorted by average score. The 50 toughest bots were like -120 total (flattener good) and the 4th toughest segment (151-200) was +60 total (flattener bad); the rest of the segments were basically even. Makes sense, too: flattener helps a ton against the very toughest bots, but hurts a bit against the borderline bots. -- [[User:Voidious|Voidious]]
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The results for Dookious seem corrupted, the details page doesn't show all the matches and your score has dropped below [[Phoenix]]. I think a re-release is in order ;-) -- [[User:Skilgannon|Skilgannon]]
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== Word cloud ==
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Beautiful word cloud! So, what is more, double or public? &raquo; <span style="font-size:0.9em;color:darkgreen;">[[User:Nat|Nat]] | [[User_talk:Nat|Talk]]</span> &raquo; 02:49, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 
Beautiful word cloud! So, what is more, double or public? &raquo; <span style="font-size:0.9em;color:darkgreen;">[[User:Nat|Nat]] | [[User_talk:Nat|Talk]]</span> &raquo; 02:49, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
  
 
: Not sure. =) I'll have to re-run it and check the counts. --[[User:Voidious|Voidious]] 13:38, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 
: Not sure. =) I'll have to re-run it and check the counts. --[[User:Voidious|Voidious]] 13:38, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
  
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== Bullet power experiment ==
  
 
I know I lost a lot of points with 1.60, but check out that wicked survival score. =) Over 95%! The change was one I was working on a couple weeks ago.  
 
I know I lost a lot of points with 1.60, but check out that wicked survival score. =) Over 95%! The change was one I was working on a couple weeks ago.  

Revision as of 20:42, 2 June 2009

From old wiki

Wow, I didn't realize your AntiSurfer gun would be so valuable. -- Simonton

I'm surprised! I wonder what you would get it you disabled the flattener as well. -- Skilgannon

Hang on, just comparing with the last version, and it seems like you broke something. You only got 91% against HOF, and several other questionable results. -- Skilgannon

Good catch. What the heck could I have done here... I'll have to check this evening when I get home. -- Voidious

I also just took a peak at Dookiton, and it only got 93% against Barracuda. So it might pay to look a little deeper.. -- Skilgannon

(Edit conflict) I'm not going to do much debugging from work, but I did at least diff the source code briefly just now. I haven't the slightest idea what bug I could have introduced - it seemed like a pretty straightforward tweak. Maybe someone is running the rumble with only 256 megs and Dookious was running out of memory? Or it could just be a real bug in the movement... -- Voidious

If it was a memory issue surely it would be much worse against other memory-hoggers, not HOF. Did you entirely disable the anti-surfer, or just modify your VirtualGuns to not choose it for firing? There might be something in there that initializes a variable that your movement depends on (or maybe the rest of your gun depends on), and it throws an exception if it doesn't get initialized. -- Skilgannon

  • I don't think it's anything like that (and the first thing I did this morning was double check =)). I just removed the gun from the VG array and hardcoded the chooser to pick the main gun. (I have a wrapper around my VirtualGuns.getBestGun to bias the main gun in some cases.) And there's no connection between the gun and movement. -- Voidious
  • Ooops ... That would be me. The default memory setting in roborumble.(sh|bat) is 256m. -- Ebo
  • Yeah, that should be increased to 512 as the default, I think, as it is in robocode.bat. I still can't say for sure if that's the problem with 1.583, but I sure hope so. =) -- Voidious
  • Oh, and about it showing up against HOF. Well, it could be that other memory hoggers also run out of RAM if/when I do, or that it's not standing out that they crush me since I disabled the AntiSurfer gun. I dunno... -- Voidious

Ok, after 1.583b (rerelease) and 1.584, it looks like I get 5-6 points from my AntiSurfer gun and ~2 points (!!!) from my flattener. Two points! It's practically useless. Still only 2 losses (Phoenix and Shadow) in both cases, too. I'll have to look at the stats more closely before drawing any more conclusions, but some interesting data there, for sure. -- Voidious

Very interesting, have you tried running the TC/MC for those versions? I would suspect maybe the 35 round results won't change much, but in 500 rounds there must be a difference? -- ABC

No, I haven't. I suspect the gun would get crushed against the betters surfers in the TC, not sure about the movement. This was interesting, too... I compared 1.584 (no flattener) to 1.582 and sorted by average score. The 50 toughest bots were like -120 total (flattener good) and the 4th toughest segment (151-200) was +60 total (flattener bad); the rest of the segments were basically even. Makes sense, too: flattener helps a ton against the very toughest bots, but hurts a bit against the borderline bots. -- Voidious


The results for Dookious seem corrupted, the details page doesn't show all the matches and your score has dropped below Phoenix. I think a re-release is in order ;-) -- Skilgannon

Word cloud

Beautiful word cloud! So, what is more, double or public? » Nat | Talk » 02:49, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Not sure. =) I'll have to re-run it and check the counts. --Voidious 13:38, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Bullet power experiment

I know I lost a lot of points with 1.60, but check out that wicked survival score. =) Over 95%! The change was one I was working on a couple weeks ago.

It uses my old, hand-crafted energy management for the first 200 shots (~5 rounds), then switches to a formulaic energy management system that tries to maximize energy differential. I track my own hit percentage and the raw odds of hitting (i.e., what Random Targeting would get) for all shots. This gives me a way of projecting an (hopefully accurate) expected hit percentage for any situation (since calculating RT odds is easy) at any bullet power. So I test the return on all increments of .01 and choose the best. Optionally (and enabled in this version), if it's a negative return, I don't shoot at all.

Of course, Robocode scoring is not purely Survivalist, so I knew there was an inherent problem with this. But I was having trouble coming up with another way of doing it. Any time I'm obviously going to win the round anyway, maximizing damage differential isn't helping my survival score, and I'm better off racking up bullet damage instead. Maybe I'll tinker with that.

--Voidious 13:38, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Chookious/Dookalk?

Mind if I throw DookiLightning and DookiCape on Chalk to determine which stinks more - Chalk's gun or movement? Thanks! --Corbos 17:46, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Of course not, be my guest. "Dookalk" almost sounds Klingon. --Voidious 18:08, 27 May 2009 (UTC)